Need help with hydro chiles

[Jibby]

Hi all,  great forum you have here!  I need a little help with my hydro pepper grow.

I have 3 plants(1 fatalii, 2 jolokia) growing in 5 gallon pails, re-circulating deep-water culture hydro setup. The plants were started around beginning of June 07, and are indoors under, now, 2 lamps - HPS 400w and 250w. The plants are huge and very healthy, but there are no peppers to speak of yet.
They have all been flowering for at least a month now and most of the flowers just keep dropping off.

I have remedied the "too much heat" on plants with fans, cool light hood, etc... lowered the nitrogen in my GH nutes mix... just a week ago changed light from 24 hrs to 16(dark at nite)... humidity is good... no excess wind from fans.. and have been shaking plants, as someone suggested to release pollen, for a few weeks now(every few days).  I just started to hand pollinate about a week ago and still see many flowers dropping off daily.  >>> I am stumped, and don't know how much longer I can sustain these beasts at this size. They just keep getting bigger daily!

Oh ya... my PH is kept between 6 and 6.3-ish.  Seems I have to add ph down everyday to get them back to 6.0.  I also add hydrogen peroxide(3%) daily to keep the roots healthy(they love that).

Any advice on whats going on with the flower drop is much appreciated. There are maybe 10 peppers just starting out, but seem to be stalled or producing incredibly slow. I swear, a couple of flowers that seem to be changing to fruit have looked the same for 2 weeks now... yet I have to prune the leaf growth of all plants every few days... go figure  :roll:

 Thanks in advance for all replies!!  

   Jibby

[Jibby]

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50 views and nobody wants a crack at this?  :?

I'm trying a few more things, and will post any changes

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[Janne]

Lower the nutrients more, chinenses are quite sensitive to nitrogen...

[Sauli Särkkä]

Also, for some reason, pH isn't always "perfect" around 6 or slightly above. Some people have gotten better results with the pH around 6,5...6,8, even up to 7.

Do you have an ECC meter? I just thought, that adding plenty of pH down raises the ECC reading, for example if you just happen to be unlucky and have very hard water with a higher than average pH. What's your tap water like over there?

Also, the nutrient levels are one possible answer. I had to keep a small Habanero on almost nothing but P and K for a month before I had a single pod develop.. :roll:


-Sale

[Jibby]

Yes, I changed the nutes today and cut back the nitrogen by about half of what I used last change. This one works out to be 5-20-17.  GH flora series nutrients >>> this change; 4ml/gal(Micro), 16ml/gal(Bloom).

 I also re-calibrated my pH meter... it was reading about 0.9 above the actual pH before calibration, so I guess all this time i've been keeping it in reality, closer to 5 than what I thought was 6.0
I adjusted this mix to around 6.7(after calibration). I will keep it there then for a while and see if things improve.

I don't have an ECC meter... maybe a worthwhile investment for the next grow.  Our local water is not very hard here, and pH is 7.0 straight from the tap.

 ...fingers crossed... thanks for replies!



   KJ

[Sauli Särkkä]

Gotta ask: where in Canada do you live? What are the temps like outside at the coldest and warmest + what are the average temperatures (high/low) for April, May, June, July, August and September? It would be nice to know this to compare to the Finnish climate and compare results with pure outdoor growing as well as greenhouse growing.


-Sale

[cornell]

As you have seen this part of the forum has not been so active... it just takes some energy to swich to english... nice to have you here Jibby...

Seems like you have a your set up is ok. Chinenses are sometimes real divas to grow. My ones were also really slow with pods but in the end of summer they got wild...In my case  lowering N level to the minimum worked.

One thing to do would be bying FloraMato nutrient and replace the bloom with it. The Fora set works ok for chillies but it is a dope nutrient and doesen't contain enough K (that weggies need). Mato has just perfect NPK ratio for capsicums. With plenty of K and low N your bushes should produce plenty of pods.

If you bushes are really leafy you could also trim the branches that dont get illuminated. They won't produce much anyway...

Cornell

[Jibby]

Hey Sauli   .... I live in Winnipeg, Manitoba. Thats right in the center of Canada, and our temps are extreme.  Winter temps(Jan.-Feb.) reach -40C and summer temps are often mid 30's C. (June-July).

[Hard to believe that in parts of BC they can grow nearly year round]

 April here is a bit early to plant outdoors(occasional frost)... generally safe to plant a garden around mid May.... and harvest would normally be around now(mid Sept.) Late August is cooling down and Sept. is unpredictable... today it's 7C.. cold and rainy, but next week may be mid 20's. These last few days have been unusually cold though.

I didn't plant an outdoor garden this year because of time restraints(work) and back problems early in season, but a friend has a big crop of peppers every year here...just have to start your chiles indoors(for outdoor garden) about March or April. I'm considering putting up a small greenhouse for next year as I would like to try outdoor hydro,..and the relentless garden weeds are getting to be a pain.

Hi Cornell   ... sorry I only speak english, but this is the best chile growing forum I could find on the net.... and I appreciate all the info I can get from other experienced growers.  

This is first time growing these varieties(jolokia, fatalii), so its a learning process for me.  I had a potted Chiltepin that grew for 3 years, indoors and out with no fuss or bother. That monster produced hundreds of pods!  Hydro is obviously a bit trickier, but the growth rate is phenomenal!

Do you use FloraMato dry or liquid form?  I think we only have the dry version in N america. Thanks for that... Don't think I'd want to mix the dry with the Micro liquid, but maybe I can order the liquid version online.  

 I'll trim some of the under leaf as well... thanks for all!

  Jibby

[Jibby]

 Only a couple of days since I changed nutrients and raising pH to around 6.8 ... and I already have 2 peppers growing on the Fatalii plant... woohoo!

I have been misting with epsom foliar mix as well, so maybe that helped some.. not sure.  
I used almost no flora micro(nitrogen) this time, so I  think that will help things along. I did take notice, when a few of you here mentioned about the high N, that when the lamps went off for the nite, that the leaves looked very dark green(lotsa Nitrogen) under the room's incandescent light.

 On close inspection, I also noticed certain leaves had alot of aphids.  I got under the plants with a flashlight and cut off all the affected plant parts that I could see... then sprayed with neem oil mix.
They needed a good under pruning anyways.

 So far things look promising >> where there's 2 pods, i think there will be more. I shake plants daily, and notice less and less blossom drop each day. Wish me luck... thanks again for all your help guys!

           Jibby

[cornell]

Good to hear that things are getting better over there ! Nice winter harvest is on it's way...

[willard3]

Flower drop probable causes:

1. Day temp too high >95F
2. Night temp too low <65F
3. Too much nitrogen fertilizer
4. Too much water
5. Low light levels (reduces fertility).
6. Very low humidity (reduces fertility)
7. Poor air circulation (air circulation contributes to pollination).
8. Lack of pollinating insects.
9. Size of pot
10. Too much mineral in feedwater.

June 7 til today is less than 90 days and you may be expecting chiles before your  plants are ready.

[Jibby]

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   sad day... I made a decision to sacrifice 2 of my 3 plants as the aphids were out of control. The Jolokias went, I kept the Fatalii... thats the one I am really looking forward to harvest anyways. I'll try the Jolokia again next outdoor season. They were pretty unruly as plants go for indoors. Fatalii is much nicer indoor plant. The one I kept is BIG anyways so I should have a few pods yet. If I weren't growing in a stationary hydro system I may have done things differently today... I just couldn't get at the back of the jolokias as they grew into the corner of the room, and thats where the bugs were proliferating and making their stronghold on my grow. I could see them, but could not reach them by hand, and couldn't get under the majority of leaves with the neem spray.
I moved the remaining plant away from the wall, thinned leaves alot and soaked her down with neem oil spray(all around and underneath) after removing all the aphids I could see.
The lesson was not allowing enough room to service my plants all around, as I never imagined they would grow into giants.

As for the flowers, they are dropping, but not as much... I have 4 small pods on the fatalii and looks to be more forming now. Willard3, thanks for the easy view list... now that I see all points together, I think I have all covered... but, i'm thinking about that too much water point because although they are/were growing in hydro-buckets submerged in solution, ...I noticed the airstones in the culled plants' buckets were barely putting out any air now, and I imagine the fatalii's stone is the same. But I cannot access it at this stage because the plant is too big to lift and the bucket will be full of roots like the others. I suppose I could change that airstone, but it'll be a 2 person job, and still tricky.

All in all, i'm happy with my decision to sacrifice those 2 plants for the one fatalii. She can now stretch her legs, but i'll keep er' in check  :wink:

 So how long does it usually take to eliminate those aphids with neem oil spray?  I bought the concentrate, and mixed it about 10ml/liter.(2mls over directions)

 Thanks again guys for your sage advice!!


   Jibby

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