Kirjoittaja Aihe: Capsicum Parvifolium  (Luettu 47705 kertaa)

Poissa Aji Inferno

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Capsicum Parvifolium
« : Helmikuu 24, 2010, 22:42:42 ip »
Tämä oli ensimmäinen löydetty aidoksi puuksi kasvava chilikasvi, ja samalla c.flexuosumin tavoin ns. siltalaji 24- ja 26-kromosomisten lajien välillä. Sen luontainen esiintymisalue on erikoinen: Venezuelasta pohjoisimpaan rannikko-Brasiliaan. Alueelta ei tunneta muita alkuperäisiä villichilejä, paitsi hyvin erikoisia, esiintymisalueensa aivan äärirajoilla kasvavia villi-annuumeja. Parvifolium onkin kehittynyt varsin omintakeiseksi chiliksi, eikä sille ole tunnettuja lähisukulaisia. Marjojen kasvutapa on erikoinen ja kasvi voi kasvaa erittäin suureksi.

Tunnettuja aitoja siemeniä ei ole saatavilla, mutta koska kyse on ilmeisesti kohtalaisen tavallisesta kasvista elinalueellaan, lienee vain ajan kysymys milloin se saadaan harrastajien iloksi. Lisätietoja ja kuva Infernossa.

Poissa Harri1980

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« Vastaus #1 : Kesäkuu 16, 2010, 16:03:25 ip »
Etelä-amerikka kiinnostaisi lomakohteena, joten pitäisiköhän alkaa suunnittelemaan matkaa Brasiliaan..

Saisikohan noilla siemenillä paljon krediittejä siemenpankista?

Poissa Aji Inferno

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« Vastaus #2 : Kesäkuu 16, 2010, 20:35:15 ip »
Etelä-amerikka kiinnostaisi lomakohteena, joten pitäisiköhän alkaa suunnittelemaan matkaa Brasiliaan..

Saisikohan noilla siemenillä paljon krediittejä siemenpankista?

Tiedä siemenpankista ja krediiteistä, mutta ainakin saisit hyvin nopeasti hyviä uusia kavereita pummaamaan siemenen tai pari! ;)

Poissa ihis81

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« Vastaus #3 : Heinäkuu 04, 2010, 13:37:38 ip »
Etelä-amerikka kiinnostaisi lomakohteena, joten pitäisiköhän alkaa suunnittelemaan matkaa Brasiliaan..

Saisikohan noilla siemenillä paljon krediittejä siemenpankista?

Tiedä siemenpankista ja krediiteistä, mutta ainakin saisit hyvin nopeasti hyviä uusia kavereita pummaamaan siemenen tai pari! ;)

Hhihihih mä voin ilmoittautua ensimmäiseksi kaveriksi ;D Ystävä hyvä :D
-Tiedän kyllä sen, en vain muista sitä kaikkea kerralla-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLWSb6h6ltk

Poissa jeQQ

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« Vastaus #4 : Helmikuu 26, 2011, 01:20:04 ap »

Poissa aropupu

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« Vastaus #5 : Lokakuu 03, 2011, 03:42:38 ap »
Lueskelin käännöskoneen avulla tuota italialaisten foorumia ja sattui eteen tällainen, joka vaikutti aika mielenkiintoiselta:

Lainaus käyttäjältä: Lonewolf @ pepperfriends
How is 'known to all, a species that Mark and I have "seen" in Brazil and' Capsicum parvifolium.
The species' typical of northern Brazil, far away from the areas we visited.
But we 'could see two plants grown at the Department of fitotecnia a university'.

As amply illustrated during the Congress AISPES, some details of the plants that we saw did not meet the definition of Capsicum parvifolium, in particular the absence of teeth.

Our perplexity 'were confirmed by botanical GEBarboza that Argentina is preparing a scientific paper on this subject.
The article 'for now only available on a site of scientific publications for a fee and will be' published shortly on "Systematic Botany", but we got a preview copy.

In summary, the article provides a new and more 'clear definition of C.parvifolium and describes two new species:
C.caatingae
C.longidentatum

The plants we saw on our trip were precisely C.caatingae, characterized by goblet without teeth, flowers / fruits in many groups (up to 20) and half clear.

The cup has C.parvifolium rather obvious teeth, dark seeds, fewer flowers / fruits per node (up to 8)

The C.longidentatum and 'characterized by calyx teeth very long (up to 1 cm), tomentosita' whole plant (with the presence of dendritic trichomes), dark seeds, lack of sharpness.

All species are typical of a semi-arid climate typical of northern Brazil and known as "caatinga"
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caatinga

The two new species have 24 chromosomes as the C.parvifolium.

Capsicum caatingae (ex C.parvifolium):




Capsicum parvifolium:


Capsicum longidentatum:



Aika tuotanoinniin sanoisinko mielenkiintoinen tuo C. caatingaen kukkaterttu  :o
« Viimeksi muokattu: Lokakuu 03, 2011, 03:45:42 ap kirjoittanut aropupu »

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« Vastaus #6 : Lokakuu 03, 2011, 09:03:42 ap »
Tämän chilin kasvatus harrastuksen yksi mielenkiintoisimmista kohdista on siina että tälläisiä uusia täysin erilaisia lajikkeita vieläkin löytyy, ja niitä tutkitaan ja niistä tihkuu tietoa. Jos kasvi kasvaa aidosti puuksi ja tuottaa tuollaisen marjaryppään on se varsin erilainen muihin chileihin nähden. Ompahan taas jotain mitä odottaa. Luulisi että joku harrastelijaporukka kohta käy noita siemeniä hankkimassa, jos ei tiedeyhteisöstä niitä leviä. Siinäpä reissussa olisi seikkailua 1800-luvun malliin.

Poissa Kimppu

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« Vastaus #7 : Lokakuu 03, 2011, 16:47:45 ip »
En tiä sitte kuinka virallisen uskottavia tietoja nuo on, mutta jotenkin tulee mieleen varsinkin tuollaisesta marjaryppäästä ja viimeisen kuvan "Capsicum longidentatumista" nämät ns. puolichilit...
http://tulipaprika.blogspot.com

Lainaus käyttäjältä: Kadotus
Mutta joo, kohta tulee Aji Inferno ja rankaisee poistamalla koko topicin, koska eihän tämä ole mahdollista.
Lainaus käyttäjältä: nicklas
kuinka voin kiertää tonne piratebayhin kun elisa on sen kerran plokannut....

Poissa aropupu

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« Vastaus #8 : Lokakuu 03, 2011, 19:05:27 ip »
Kieltämättä mullekin kyllä tulee tuosta marjaryppäästä ensimmäisenä mieleen joku toinen solanum-suvun kasvi josta olen nähnyt joskus kuvankin, koitin tuossa juuri tänään junassa istuessa miettiä että mikä se oli ja missä olen sen nähnyt, mutta en muista. Systematic Botany ei kuitenkaan ole mikään ihan höpöhöpö-julkaisu, että jos tuo tutkimus tosiaan menee siinä läpi (joka siis jää vielä nähtäväksi), niin katson että turha siihen on meikäläisten lähteä tältä harrastelija-mutupohjalta kauheasti vastaan mussuttamaan.

Poissa Aji Inferno

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« Vastaus #9 : Lokakuu 03, 2011, 19:20:41 ip »
En tiä sitte kuinka virallisen uskottavia tietoja nuo on, mutta jotenkin tulee mieleen varsinkin tuollaisesta marjaryppäästä ja viimeisen kuvan "Capsicum longidentatumista" nämät ns. puolichilit...

CGN19198 (capsicum.sp) tekee myös monen marjan ryppäitä. Pitänee ottaa se uudelleen tutkimisen alle...

Poissa aropupu

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« Vastaus #10 : Lokakuu 04, 2011, 15:26:02 ip »
Eikös CGN 19198(#2?) tehnyt useampia kukkia per kukkavarsi (kuva)? tuossa "terttu" kuvassa näyttäisi lähinnä siltä että samasta kasvupisteestä lähtee aivan uskomaton määrä kukkia.

Poissa Aji Inferno

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« Vastaus #11 : Lokakuu 04, 2011, 21:17:02 ip »
Eikös CGN 19198(#2?) tehnyt useampia kukkia per kukkavarsi (kuva)? tuossa "terttu" kuvassa näyttäisi lähinnä siltä että samasta kasvupisteestä lähtee aivan uskomaton määrä kukkia.

Näin on. Ja mitä tuohon #2:een tulee, sen täytyy olla jonkun harrastajan keksimä oma tunnus jollekin kenties risteytyneelle versiolle. CGN ei nimeäisi kasveja niin. :)

Poissa aropupu

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« Vastaus #12 : Lokakuu 04, 2011, 22:49:02 ip »
Olen ollut siinä käsityksessä että fataliille tuli joskus aikanaan (ilmeisesti suoraan CGN:ltä?) tuon 19198:n siemeniä jotka olivat jo tullessaan vahinkohybridejä ja niistä syntyneissä kasveissa esiintyi huomattavaa variaatiota, huomattavimpana tuo useampia kukkia per kukkavarsi-ominaisuus jota ei käsittääkseni ole millään tunnetulla capsicum-lajilla. Käsittääkseni tuo #2 on siis fataliin antama nimitys tuolle omituisemmalle versiolle, voi kyllä tosin olla että olen ymmärtänyt tämän väärinkin. Fassehan tähän itse osaisi parhaiten vastata, mutta harvemminhan tuo taitaa tälle suomenkieliselle puolelle kirjoitella  :)

Poissa Lonewolf

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« Vastaus #13 : Helmikuu 05, 2012, 13:55:06 ip »
Hi to all.

I saw this topic and I wish to correct the translation from Italian to English, so it's more clear.
It's hard to understand Finnish language, even with Google translator, but if you are interested I can post something about C.caatingae in English.

Lainaus käyttäjältä: Lonewolf @ pepperfriends
How it's known to all, a species that Marco and I have "seen" in Brazil is the Capsicum parvifolium.
The species is typical of northern Brazil, far away from the areas we visited.
But we could see two plants grown at the Department of Agronomy of an University.

As widely illustrated during the Congress AISPES, some details of the plants that we saw did not meet the definition of Capsicum parvifolium, in particular the absence of teeth.

Our perplexity were confirmed by Argentinian botanist G.E.Barboza who is preparing a scientific article on this subject.
The article at the moment is only available on a site of scientific publications for a fee and will be published shortly on "Systematic Botany", but we got a preview copy.
[now the article was published]

In summary, the article provides a new and more clear definition of C.parvifolium and describes two new species:
C.caatingae
C.longidentatum

The plants we saw on our trip were precisely C.caatingae, characterized by calyx without teeth, flowers / fruits in groups of many (up to 20) and straw seeds.

The C.parvifolium instead has calyx with rather obvious teeth, dark seeds, fewer flowers / fruits per node (up to eight)

The C.longidentatum is characterized by calyx teeth very long (up to 1 cm), pubescence on the whole plant (with the presence of dendritic trichomes), dark seeds, lack of pungency.

All species are typical of a semi-arid climate typical of northern Brazil and known as "caatinga"
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caatinga

The two new species have 24 chromosomes as the C.parvifolium.
« Viimeksi muokattu: Helmikuu 05, 2012, 14:15:07 ip kirjoittanut Lonewolf »

Poissa M;kko

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« Vastaus #14 : Helmikuu 05, 2012, 15:03:04 ip »
Hi Lonewolf and welcome to Chilifoorumi!

Please, feel free to tell us about the C. Caatingae, we are all ears!

Poissa Lonewolf

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« Vastaus #15 : Helmikuu 06, 2012, 01:39:11 ap »
The C.caatingae is a strange species.

The plants we saw were more than 4 meters high and wide.
They were formed by a great number of stems, some big as my arm.
Plants are 11 years old.

Flowers and fruits are grouped together in great number, up to 20 per node.
At the moment of our visit it was the beginning of the winter (begin of June) and there were quite few flowers, but in summer plants produce thousands of flowers.
Flowers colors are white, purple, green/yellow with a small line almost black inside; very nice!
Pods are small, like a pea, green when immature and yellowish when mature.
They are juicy and quite hot.
The pedicel shows a clear annular constriction (maybe they are a progenitor of C.chinense?).
Seeds are straw (yellowish) and smooth, while all the other SE Brasilian species we found have black and wrinkled seeds.

Small plants became woody at a very early stage; this species is more like a true tree than a bush as most of Capsicum.


Here a video of the plants.

http://www.pepperfriends.com/video/cparvifolium2.wmv

Many photos can be seen in our forum; I'll publish some here soon.

In the wild plants lives in an arid area; they often survive searching the shadow of big boulders, under which they push their roots to find humidity.
« Viimeksi muokattu: Helmikuu 06, 2012, 01:46:52 ap kirjoittanut Lonewolf »

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« Vastaus #16 : Helmikuu 06, 2012, 15:39:37 ip »
Wonderful and very interesting finding, Lonewolf! Where in Brazil did you find these? Any cities near the place? Did you get any seeds from this and other wild peppers? It would be extremely interesting to test how those rare species grow in Finland's conditions.

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« Vastaus #17 : Helmikuu 06, 2012, 21:43:41 ip »
We found many populations of 7 different species in the wild, but these plants (the eighth species) was seen in the growing area of the Department of Agronomy of an University, because the species came from Northern Brazil, while we visited South-Eastern areas (from Sao Paulo to North of Rio de Janeiro)
I will not tell the name of the University, because I'm not sure if the botanist would be glad to receive a lot of messages  ;)
However, for who knows literature about wild Capsicum, it's not hard to find.

We were pleased to see and study many wild Capsicum in their natural habitat, we took a lot of photos and we tasted fruits of each species, but we didn't collect seeds.
As you know, according to the Convention of Rio de Janeiro 1992 about biodiversity conservation, exporting wild material (including seeds) from their origin countries is not allowed without the necessary permits.
« Viimeksi muokattu: Helmikuu 06, 2012, 23:08:15 ip kirjoittanut Lonewolf »

Poissa Aji Inferno

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« Vastaus #18 : Helmikuu 11, 2012, 00:46:53 ap »
We found many populations of 7 different species in the wild, but these plants (the eighth species) was seen in the growing area of the Department of Agronomy of an University, because the species came from Northern Brazil, while we visited South-Eastern areas (from Sao Paulo to North of Rio de Janeiro)
I will not tell the name of the University, because I'm not sure if the botanist would be glad to receive a lot of messages  ;)
However, for who knows literature about wild Capsicum, it's not hard to find.

We were pleased to see and study many wild Capsicum in their natural habitat, we took a lot of photos and we tasted fruits of each species, but we didn't collect seeds.
As you know, according to the Convention of Rio de Janeiro 1992 about biodiversity conservation, exporting wild material (including seeds) from their origin countries is not allowed without the necessary permits.


Very interesting, Lonewolf! I believe many of us here in Finland would have loved to join that trip!

Yes, I do understand your points about the privacy of the botanists and the legal restrictions around distributing the seeds from Brazil and other countries. It is a complex issue, though, I think. For example, capsicum lanceolatum was considered extinct not too many years ago. Now it is relatively common here in Finland among chili enthusiasts, thanks to someone who sent seeds to one of our leading chili researchers here - and he then decided to give seeds away to other growers. I believe, this was a very good thing to happen.

There are reasons - some quite valid ones - why the botanists generally don't like spreading rare seeds to hobbyist like us. The community has also sometimes abused the researchers. For example, the USDA seed gene bank was open for almost everyone still about 10 years ago. Some hobbyist chili researchers (including me) ordered seeds from there, in order to study how very different chili varieties grow in Finland's cool climate - and so on. That research, although not "professional", has lead to some real discoveries. For example, I myself discovered (to my knowledge) the first time ever, that capsicum flexuosum is extremely cold-resistant. My two plants survived a week of -25C temperature. That was absolutely amazing... Discoveries like that would not have happened without international network of people, both professional and hobbyists, willing to grow and test these rare chili species.

Later, unfortunately, the word got out - some people encouraged everyone to order seeds from USDA "for free". The result was shameful - and very soon USDA closed their seed service from almost everyone. That's the problem with us people: we want everything if we get a chance. We are sometimes greedy and thoughtless in our excitement to grow cool, rare chili varieties... :( 

Still, I wish there was some way we could help the botanists to save the very rare species by growing them in a responsible way - and also finding out things about those plants. For example, who would have thought that c.flexuosum from Paraguay could be extremely frost-resistant?! It had to be tested in Finland...

Personally, I don't wish the rarest chili species to become just things people play with, just for curiosity and vanity. They deserve respect and care - also to remain pure. I hope there will be a way to make growing even the rarest species - and thus to also ensure their survival - in many countries, and also iin serious, respecting hobbyist communities.

I myself now only have wild species growing here inside my home in Finland: c.flexuosum (2 varieties), c.rhomboideum, c.lanceolatum, c.cardenasii (2 varieties). I have grown lots of other wilds, saving seeds and documenting their behaviour. It would be an honor to one day grow some of the species you witnessed during your trip to Brazil!

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« Vastaus #19 : Helmikuu 22, 2012, 20:07:50 ip »
Yes, I do understand your points about the privacy of the botanists and the legal restrictions around distributing the seeds from Brazil and other countries. It is a complex issue, though, I think. For example, capsicum lanceolatum was considered extinct not too many years ago. Now it is relatively common here in Finland among chili enthusiasts, thanks to someone who sent seeds to one of our leading chili researchers here - and he then decided to give seeds away to other growers. I believe, this was a very good thing to happen.

You're right, but we must consider that seeds of C.lanceolatum were distributed before 1992, so they are not affected by currrent conventions about wild material.

Lainaus
There are reasons - some quite valid ones - why the botanists generally don't like spreading rare seeds to hobbyist like us.

Unfortunately botanists must (or should) respect the laws of their country.
In our case however, there were no botanist directly involved.
We were in the wild and was only an our decision to take or not seeds.
Who think to go there and pick up seeds must however know that he have to transit a couple of Custom to go back home and if he's found in possession of seeds (or other wild material, especially animals) can pass some kind of trouble.

Lainaus
I myself discovered (to my knowledge) the first time ever, that capsicum flexuosum is extremely cold-resistant. My two plants survived a week of -25C temperature. That was absolutely amazing...

That's very interesting.
I have two plants outside since past Autumn, with temperatures down to -10°C and under zero for many consecutive days.
Next spring I will see if they will restart ...

Lainaus
Still, I wish there was some way we could help the botanists to save the very rare species by growing them in a responsible way - and also finding out things about those plants.

I agree that work of true keen on Capsicum is important!
With our passion we can get the maximum from our plants and notice a lot of interesting properties.
There is a chance to give an effective help to preserve and to deepen the knowledge about wild Capsicum; it's the so called "cultivation ex-situ"; it's not easy to be recognized as an association able to operate for this purpose, but we (as AISPES) will try.