Allen received his seeds from Jukka. That's all I know. Reimers is a mystery to me and shall remain so.  :wink:

Here is Allen's site.

http://www.linuxis.net/gallery/allen

He and JohnF are the godfathers of seed for many of us in NA.

Jennifer

Well, because the baccatum 'Quintisho' seems to have originated in Finland I believe that you are entitled to give it an appropriate Finnish name.  

It's not the wild or naturalized chile you were hoping for but, until that happens, it sounds like a beautiful one to call your own.

Jennifer

Have had a rethink.

The baccutum Quintisho is properly identified as Quintisho Cross. 'Not Quintisho' implies no relation to the true Quintisho and stability.

Jennifer

Just wanted to post an update on Quintisho.

John and I consulted with Allen Boatman who has done grow-outs of the baccutum Quintisho on this side of the ocean. He says that his Quintisho was supposed to be an annuum (now thought to be chinense) but grew out as a cross, that is, the baccutum. So the baccutum is actually Not Quintisho or Quintisho Cross. Slight differences in the baccutum fruit shape are likely a result of segregation down the filial lines.

Jennifer

My query stems from a question about favourite seasoning peppers on another forum. Pasilla Bajio was  recommended by one of my pepper buddies as a good one to try. Hmmm, not a chinense. Not from the Caribbean.

I did find a few recipes online which indicated that no-low heat, high aroma and flavour were key characteristics of a seasoning pepper. The closest thing to a definitive answer I found within the following article:

http://www.chilepepper.com/articles/view.php?articleID=67

If I go by this, then identifying true 'seasoning peppers' becomes much easier.

Thanks. Any more thoughts?
Jennifer

What is a seasoning pepper? Is it defined by species (a no-low heat chinense)? By use in cooking? Geographic origin?

Thanks for all thoughts on this.

Jennifer

another: Tejaswini is a hybrid or not? Sources differ yet again.

I need to say this. I have a few pet peeves re chiles (or any other veggies for that matter).

1. Not identifying a variety as hybrid before saving and sharing seeds. To be fair, this problem often stems from the seed companies. So really my peeve is with them. Is or is not Medusa a hybrid? What about Kung Pao? Are there more than one variety with the same commercial name?
Now I see Joe's Long Cayenne, an Italian-Canadian heirloom co-opted by the USA  :wink: , listed in the UK as an F1. To make matters worse, this so-called F1 is one of three chiles being grown in the BBC's Gardeners World 2006 Chilli Trial.  :x

http://www.bbc.co.uk/gardening/tv_and_radio/gardeners_world/chillitrial_index.shtml

2. Omitting genebank accession numbers if there is a common or varietal name associated. I have a serious problem with this. And it's why I really like what Thietavu does on Inferno. The more I visit, the more impressed I am.

3. Seed companies/others changing or editing names. And free-form spelling.

4. Seed companies/others stealing photographs and documentation. This is fairly new to peppers, but a longstanding problem in the tomato world. Usually it's small companies 'borrowing' from foreign sites. Do people not realize that we, diehard chileheads, surf the world looking for the elusive holy grail of peppers? Plus, it's ILLEGAL to steal. Funny that.

Okay, that's plenty. Anybody else want to share (vent)?

Jennifer

I have an unknown (to me) pepper called Macedonian. After finding this article, I would very much like to find other Macedonian and Greek peppers. I also have a pepper called Golden Greek Pepperoncini. Having worked in Greece, I know there are more. And, judging from this link and current seed politics they need to be preserved--not just as pickles.

http://www.krinos.com/articles/macedonia.pdf

Help!!??

Jennifer, who was digging in the dirt in Greece back then, but as an archaeologist, not a gardener  

Thietavu, I have additional comments--I don't think your logic/assumption re the 'Russian' PI baccatum was flawed--but I'm filled with a nasty cold and cannot think straight enough to respond properly at present. I will write again soon.

Sari, apologies for not being in touch when I said I would. I will make contact as soon as my head doesn't feel like it's going to explode. Your Orange Russian is actually Orange Russian 117--the 117 being an important part of the name. More later...

Jennifer the miserable, grumpy one

JartsaP, what do you know about garlic being good for colds? :wink:  Thanks for making me smile!

Quick revisit to Quintisho:

Check out the main Inferno site under Lajit. There, larger than life, is a picture of the flower of the baccatum version.

More later...

Jennifer

Sari, thanks for your kind offer of seeds! I'm thinking about how I can truly justify getting more seeds at present....I'll be in touch over the weekend. If nothing else, I am very curious to find out if that Orange Russian tomato is the one I (re)introduced from a remote Doukhobor community in northern Saskatchewan. And I have lots of seeds, tomato, pepper and otherwise, to share if you are in need (or simply desirous :>)

Thietavu, I can understand your reluctance to assign Russian provenance to a baccatum. My feelings are perhaps a bit different.

First, there is a lack of information about what species and cultivars were brought back to Europe, carried along the Silk Routes, or introduced during colonization in the near and far east. The arbitrary political/national borders we have now are not those from even a century ago, especially in the northern far east. Where in Russia is this baccatum from? What incarnation of Russia? Plus, who knows what a single intrepid chilehead explorer/immigrant might have brought with them.

We know and, I believe, accept that there are at least 2 baccatum from Bulgaria (recorded as deposited in the USDA by 1978). We accept various species as coming from Malaysia, understanding that they were introduced at a very early date by the Dutch. Bosland notes that in Nepal frutescens have naturalized in the wild; annuum and chinense are grown in most Nepalese kitchen gardens. I have various species which I know came to Canada--and remote areas of Canada too--as part of our immigration in the 19th century. One pepper of particular interest is originally from Manchuria. Can I call it Canadian? It came here long enough ago to be consider an heirloom by most collectors.

I suppose the question might be: if something has been grown in a particular location for some time, even to the extent of becoming a unique strain, can one identify it with that new location or is one forced to ignore a possibly lengthy part of its history and only associate it with its point of origin? The answer to this has implications in many directions.

I'm not sure that I've expressed myself particularly well today. I keep having difficulty getting into and staying in the forum. Please forgive me if what I've written doesn't make complete sense.

Perhaps this might be a better read:
http://www.fiery-foods.com/dave2/siberia.asp

I find the geographic, cultural and culinary histories as fascinating as the biology and actual plants. And also worth documenting in full. This is something I can see is very much done in Finland and not so much in other places. This site would be well worth translating, Thietavu. Please let me know if I can be of any help.

Jennifer, ending her rambling hijack

What a wonderful and detailed overview of your garden plans, JartsaP. Thanks so much for sharing this in English!!!

Jennifer, who shares her in-town living space with 9 furkids, all feline at the moment

Luca, my hero. What can I offer you as a bribe....errrr...incentive?  

Bassino, like you I've tried quite a few Hungarian peppers. Some quite good, some only ordinary at best. All annuum and all very cultivated varieties, which is not surprising really. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and the photo.

Jennifer

Luca, I didn't word that last post very well, did I?  :?  I am not as blond as I may sound.  :wink:

More Bulgarian peppers? I am SOOOO very excited. Bulgarian Carrot (C. annuum) is quite good. I've heard Bulgarian Apple (C. baccatum) is great. There are 2 baccatum from Bulgaria in the USDA (one of them discussed above), but they seem to be unnamed. And now a cherry and more? Please do ask about them, if you would!!!

Many thanks, Luca!

Jennifer

Hi, Sari.

Great list for 2006. I notice we have some overlap--the JohnF effect perhaps? You too have a fondness for the seasoning peppers. Please let me know how the St Lucia Seasoning does for you. I was unable to locate some seeds for this year. Didn't you grow it last year as well?

What information do you have on the Yellow Russian? Very interested in that one. Thanks!

Cheers and best wishes for a great growing season!
Jennifer, who knows for sure that JohnF's garden will be the coolest

John, remember that I primarily inhabit the tomato world where there are 20+ tomato varieties named Polish and no species differentiation...

Jennifer the anal retentive documentarian

John, just to clarify: Beth, Mickey and I all received our seeds from you; the trail from you leads back to Terra Time and Tide. So far all grow-outs are consistent in flower and fruit form, enough to identify this Quintisho as chinense. The question then is where Jukka and Allen got their apparently baccatum Quintisho seeds.

And apologies if you thought I was implying that any of the 3 of you sent out crossed seeds. I was thinking further back, possibly USDA or an original source/collection point in Bolivia.

Jennifer

Thanks for posting those pictures, JartsaP!!!

It would be interesting to trace sources back from Beth, Allen and Jukka. Perhaps someone unwittingly sent out a cross early on. If growers have grown out only 1 plant in a season, then that cross may not have been detected right away. Are we possibly seeing separate filial lines now?

Jennifer

John, what do you think about Allen's Q versus Jukka's Q?

Jennifer