Hello everybody,
my name is Riccardo and I live in Italy.
This is my first post in this forum I found thanks to Bassino and Fatalii.
I'm mainly interested in wild peppers and other solanaceae.
Here is a couple of pics of what I got from what it was supposed to be a Cobincho seed.
It is clearly some kind of cross and it is a really interesting plant.
It stll has the common wild characteristics that the pods fall down when you shake the plant, but it has not so little pods (1-2 cm) and a really interesting flower.
The plant really recall a C. Chacoense for attoitude and leaves shape, but unfortunately I did not take any pictures of it.
(http://www.virtualpepper.org/images/IMG_2142.JPG)
(http://www.virtualpepper.org/images/IMG_1755.JPG)
All the best
Riccardo
have you tasted it yet? :)
the taste is more or less the same of all the C. Chacoense I have: not particularly interesting and quite hot.
The flower looks so pretty, can't wait to grow it!
Riccardino, welcome! I'm also very interested in other (mostly edible) solanaceae species, what species other than Capsicums have you grown?
Wow... quite a flower! Wonder what's the other part in this crossing... :)
Hi,
I have many solanum and lycopersicon species and a few physalis, cyphomandra, datura, tubocapsicum species.
Many of them are recent acquisition and I did not tried them yet, other are well consolidated. I'm always looking for new ones ...
I prefer the edible ones, but love the poisonous too.
Regarding the flower in the pic I hope the purple nuances will be still present in the next generation, but being a cross I do not know what will happen.
All the best
Riccardo
I studied all the photos available of Cobincho flowers - all others have pure white flowers. I also checked all USDA accessions, all stated flowers to be white without spots and yellow anthers. And according to the chile cross-pollination table, C. Chacoense should not cross with purple-flower species. So where does this color come from? Could it be some purple-flowered annuum (like Bolivian Rainbow or some other ornamental) or a mutation? Or even some yet unknown, purple flowered Capsicum species from the deepest South-American jungle? :)
Very interesting. Have you tried how it grows outdoors? I recall Jukka having good experiences of "normal" Cobincho outdoors.
Well, like you said, chacoense can cross-pollinate with C. annuums and there are many purple -flowered C. annuums out there...
The flower shown above has definitely some C. chacoense characteristics.
Also, I can see some ornamental C. annuum traits there with a little bit of imagination.
Stems and pedicel resembles more C. annuum.
C. annuum x baccatum cross was also very interesting, as the typical C. baccatum -spots were almost impossible to notice. :)
About the C. exile (and other C. chacoenses) grown outdoors:
They did really well, they actually managed to ripen the pods before it got too cold and seemed to enjoy it specially when grown near to the sea.
First pics, producing pods at the beginning of the season!
http://juuri.org/fatalii/?u=g&c=search&word=ground&id=906
http://juuri.org/fatalii/?u=g&c=search&word=ground&id=1922
Capsicum riccardium? :shock:
I really do not know what to think about it.
I do not have any idea of where the purple comes from. However, for what I know chacoense can easily cross with annum. Since many annum are purple flowered this could be the source for the purple, but the real situation is that I actually do not have any idea of what this plant is.
The plant has several chacoense marks (I'm afraid I did not have a shot of the whole plant), but the flower do not really seems a chacoense: if you look at the calyx it is really smooth, while all other chacoense I tried have long teeth on it. Also the purple distribution on the flower is really strange: the anthers are somewhat purple, filaments are white and pistil is purple.
Based on the flower I would say it is an annuum, but believe me: the plant is absolutely different from any annuum I know and I know at least one of its parents was not an Annuum!
Another interesting tract is that the pods fall down when fully ripen and this seems to indicate a wild plant.
The only certainty is it is a really interesting plant.
For what concern growing it outdoor I grow all my plants outdoor, but potted since my soil is too heavy for peppers.
Riccardo
I used about 40 minutes to write my post, you discused alot meanwhile ...
I like having a pepper with my name!!
Riccardo
Growing potted peppers is easy here in Finland but growing them in the ground... that's the hard part as the growth seems to slow down so much that the season will almost always run out short.
Oh, I already forgot what a nice, long and hot summers you have there. I have only visited northern parts of your country, but it was very warm, though the air was somehow hazy all around, despite the warm sunshine. I drove down from the Alps to Caorle, then visited Venezia, spent the weekend at lago Garda, and continued westward to Monaco and then Spain. I loved the Italian food and icecream... Of course you can grow peppers outdoors, how stupid of me. :oops:
Oh it was not so a stupid question: I have plenty of problem outdoor, but for the opposite reason you thought about. During summer here it is too hot and I have huge problems of flower dropping and few production. Consider that during some year we have temperature up to 40° degrees for several weeks (or months) without any single drop of rain and despite the rain absence it is usually very humid making ideal conditions for a lot of fungal disease.
Riccardo
I have started Cobinch seeds from two sources for comparison and got two quite different plants. The first plant looks more like a 'wild' pepper and is younger. The second plant has very interesting flowers and two of them per node.
Cobincho-NMDUC
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/58235517.jpg)
Cobincho-MDESH
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/58235515.jpg)
Flower of the second plant
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/58235513.jpg)
Hmm, where have the stamens gone from that flower?
The flowers are very small but I have looked at others only partiallly open ( with a magnifier) and they are the same. It appears they don't open until the pod is already developing.
Hmmmm... Quite interesting! That was also the first thing that came to my eyes when I saw the picture...
So, if the flowers don't open before they have been fertilized does it mean that the plant protects itself agains cross-polinization?
Very interesting stuff. I got some Cobincho seeds, I guess I'll have to try that one too! ;)
Excellent pictures, John!
Lainaus käyttäjältä: "JartsaP"I drove down from the Alps to Caorle, then visited Venezia, spent the weekend at lago Garda, and continued westward to Monaco and then Spain.
Where's Venezia?
Did you mean Venice?
(finnish: pilkunnussintaa...)
A pod developing without stamens (and without pollen)? :roll:
Lainaus käyttäjältä: "Gekko"A pod developing without stamens (and without pollen)? :roll:
Still wondering the same... John, have you really seen a pod forming there?
Could it be some kind of mutation or maybe they are just female-only flowers waiting for male Cobinchos to do their job. Hmm...that would be something totally unexpected.
bassino
looks like a pod to me-here is another chile showing the progression-though it still has its stamens
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/58309209.jpg)
Very nice picture with all those different stages!
But have you seen a pod forming in that particular plant. It looks like the other flower has no stamens either. I'm just speculating if the whole plant is fully sterile...
No, that was the first one to open and I'm assuming it's a pod. Time will tell.
Lainaus käyttäjältä: "riccardino"I really do not know what to think about it.
The plant has several chacoense marks (I'm afraid I did not have a shot of the whole plant), but the flower do not really seems a chacoense: if you look at the calyx it is really smooth, while all other chacoense I tried have long teeth on it. Also the purple distribution on the flower is really strange: the anthers are somewhat purple, filaments are white and pistil is purple.
Based on the flower I would say it is an annuum, but believe me: the plant is absolutely different from any annuum I know and I know at least one of its parents was not an Annuum!
Another interesting tract is that the pods fall down when fully ripen and this seems to indicate a wild plant.
Riccardo
Here's a flower of a real "c.exile" Cobincho, c.chacoense: (http://www.saunalahti.fi/thietavu/Chili/Wild/exile_flower.jpg)
Your plant certainly is a puzzling case... Still, I've noticed interesting differencies in chacoenses. Ones from Paraguay, for example, seem to have a very different growing habit from some of Argentina origin. Some grow into messy bushes, some into baccatum-like tall "trees". As you write, most chacos have those very long calyx teeth, but the "c.exile" version is a notable exception! See: (http://www.saunalahti.fi/thietavu/Chili/Wild/Ex_Exile_ripe_02.jpg) - and compare to another chacoense: (http://www.saunalahti.fi/thietavu/Chili/Wild/Cha_ChilePenguin_raw_03a.jpg)
It has been reported that there are totally non-pungent chacos, etc. So, our knowledge of this particular capsicum isn't still perfect at all. It's rather closely related to annuums, so it just might contain annuum-like ability to form purple shades even without crossings... Anyway, there's more to chacoenses than I've thought before. Not very tasty but kind of interesting plants - and very resistant to insects, it seems.
Hi
I grew two different chacoenses last year and although I thought the Putapario lacked flavor, the other is simply top...great on goats cheese, lightly toasted on a hunk of french bread (lucky me its all I can get..LOL).
Unfortunately, I cant be precise about this second chacoense, as the seeds were simply labelled as "small unknown chacoense" and came from a seed exchange.
I must get images up into my photobucket album and post a few.
I also have an exile growing now that has a few fruit on it and plenty of flowers..it seems to be doing quite well in its current 13cm pot but is getting quite big now so will get moved up soon) I have yet to do any clear photos of that and will try to get some tomorrow so I can post images of all three chacoenses I have grown..I would be very interested in any comments.
All the best
Guy
Lainaus käyttäjältä: "Guy"Hi
I grew two different chacoenses last year and although I thought the Putapario lacked flavor, the other is simply top...great on goats cheese, lightly toasted on a hunk of french bread (lucky me its all I can get..LOL).
Unfortunately, I cant be precise about this second chacoense, as the seeds were simply labelled as "small unknown chacoense" and came from a seed exchange.
I must get images up into my photobucket album and post a few.
I also have an exile growing now that has a few fruit on it and plenty of flowers..it seems to be doing quite well in its current 13cm pot but is getting quite big now so will get moved up soon) I have yet to do any clear photos of that and will try to get some tomorrow so I can post images of all three chacoenses I have grown..I would be very interested in any comments.
All the best
Guy
All new info will be most appreciated here! :-)
Hi
I finally got a few pics..need better, but will have to do for now. I seem to be growing the same seeds as John....I am guessing by his code that its from the same source mine? :-)
The plant is a bit on the lanky side to say the least, the fisrt photo was at 100 days from seed sowing.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/Guy_Holman/W100days.jpg)
The flowers look very similar to the chacoenses I had last year. Heres one of the chacos 2005.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/Guy_Holman/Flower.jpg)
And a flower from this years C.exile. I really like the flowers, similar to the chacoense above but the petals are fatter and more oval/heart shaped with a point.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/Guy_Holman/W140406.jpg)
One of the five pods set so far indoors with no insects. This one is a little more rounded at the tip than some of its siblings, the others are more pointed.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/Guy_Holman/WGreen-fruit.jpg)
I guess its not Cobincho as it has the long calyx teeth as you can see. Though I can see a little difference in the flowers, the way the plant has grown is very much like the two 2005 chacoenses I had (the Putapario and the unamed chaco in the photo above). I will add ripe pod photos when they arrive!! Looking forward to a spot of testing (and seed collecting of course Chris..LOL)
Having fun with it whatever it is!!
All the best
Guy
Ok-trying to sort out my cobinchos. Cobincho-MDESH I got in 03 and anyone who got cobincho seeds from me, they would be from that source-although probably saved seeds. Cobinch-NMDUC I got in 05.Here are pictures of plant and flower from first growing of MDESH
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/58672217.jpg)
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/58672218.jpg)
The two flowers per node seemed an anomoly but in this picture it looks as though there may be some nodes with two per.
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/58672940.jpg)
Hi
John - That flower looks more like what I am seeing from this exile than those of the chacoenses from last year?
Just a couple more pics, this time of the Putapario from 2005.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/Guy_Holman/Wilds%202006/Putapario/10a8238d.jpg)
This years exile has a few double flowers to a node but not a lot of them are staying on the plant for the moment. A lot of flowers drop from too much heat in the indoor quarters!! Now that it is outside in the tunnel thing this should improve...it did the trick for the others last year.
I will try and get a few more pics of that and the plant as it is now, (the photo in the other post was taken about three weeks ago ) during this week.
All the best
Guy
It appears that either those were not forming pods or they aborted because now there are no flowers and no pods. This is a plant with strange behaior.
As regards the flowers --Here is a picture of the flower from the first grow out with the odd stamens and the new one with, it looks to me , a stamen that has degenerated.
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/59331190.jpg)
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/59331189.jpg)
Also the first time grown there were two flushes of peppers from the one plant. The first pods very small- 1/4" long with no heat and no seeds and the second with 1" long pods that had seeds and were very hot
First flush
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/59331187.jpg)
Second flush
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/59331188.jpg)
The younger of the two Cobinchos is now flowering and the flowers are interesting, not like the MDESH version, and only one per node.
Two views of flowers of Cobincho-NMDUC
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/59973937.jpg)
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/59973938.jpg)
Second flush of flowers on Cobincho-MDESH. The flowers now have stamens like the previous example of this plant I grew. This is an odd plant
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/60892306.jpg)
Cobincho-NMDUC is now producing pods--the other has not
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/62950799.jpg)
John, looks very good!
How's the taste?
Haven't tasted yet--that's the first ripe one.
Tasted today-extremely hot but the heat fades. No special flavor but a hint of bitter. Only two seeds in each of two ripe pods.
Lainaus käyttäjältä: "JohnF"Tasted today-extremely hot but the heat fades. No special flavor but a hint of bitter. Only two seeds in each of two ripe pods.
Extremely hot..? That's rare for a chaco! They tend to be relatively mild (about Jalapeno's heat or so)...
The other Cobincho--MDESH never did produce any fruit and stopped flowering. It has now begun to flower again producing tiny 1/4" flowers. The plant has continued to grow and is now quite wide.
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/63719777.jpg)
Ok--Cobincho-MDESH is now forming pods-after failing to do so before
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/65345671.jpg)
And the plant now
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/65345669.jpg)
The other plant now, for comparisson-Cobincho-NMDUC
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/65345673.jpg)
Just got to say, John, you're pictures' quality isn't that far away from perfect :)
I have to ask: what gear do you photograph with? If I win the lottery or break a sales record at work in the next two weeks, I have plans to buy a decent camera to replace my "point-and-shoot" HP 935.
-Sale
The recent pics were taken with an Olympus C3030zoom. The earlier with an Olympus C5050zoom. The C5050 is in the shop because it fell on the tile floor. The C3030 takes good pictures but the C5050 focuses much closer and is good for the tiny flowers.