Hello all, I hope you don't mind me writing a short description of my current season in English as well as Finnish.

So, in overwintering I have these varieties:
Aji Amarillo
Aji Verde
Giant Szegedi sweet pepper
Quintisho (baccatum version)
Rocoto (Manzano, red)
Jalapeño
Jalapeño Hercules F1 (third season for this plant)
Tepin (very probably dead by now, in cold cellar overwintering experiment)
Bolivian Rainbow

And these from cuttings:
2x PI260567
Mulato

New seedlings, started in beginning of November (not counted the seedlings yet):
Aji Cristal
Aji Norteno
Aji Dulce
PI441551
Pulla
Kozi Roh
Nigra
Jalapeño TAM
Serrano Tampiqueno
Santa Fe Grande

Other Solanaceae, in overwintering:
Solanum sessiliflorum "Cocona"
Solanum sisymbriifolium "Sticky nightshade"
Cyphomandra betacea (several plants) "Tree tomato / Tamarillo"
Physalis peruviana "Cape Gooseberry"

Other Solanaceae, new seedlings:
Naranjilla (Solanum quitoense / hirsutissimum)
Solanum sp. "Baquicha"
Jaltomata procumbens
Cyphomandra abutiloides
Solanum aethiopicum
Solanum caripense "Tzimbalo"
Lycopersicon cheesmanii
"Physalis chinensis"(? I don't know what this really is, there should not be such a species)
Solanum melongena 'Brazilian Oval Orange'
Solanum melongena 'Ping Tung'
Solanum melongena 'Diamond'

I don't want to try and list all the non-Solanaceae plants in here, and I also left out the seeds that have not germinated so far. But I can say that I'm more into the edibles than decorative plants, so I'm trying to grow all kinds of vegetables, fruits, berries and herbs.

My overwintering place inside the house is at the moment just a corner of the living room. But there seems to be a better future ahead, I'm just building a wall across the living room, the smaller part will remain as TV/movie room and the BIGGER part will be mostly for the plants!  :D

Outside, I have a 15 square-meter greenhouse, self-made of course. It has double polyethylene film glazing, and in the spring a 2kW electric heater will be used for air heating. Two big hatches in the roof open automatically when temperature reaches about 30 C. Tropf-Blumat ceramic sensors are used for automatic watering in the beds (approximately half of the plants in greenhouse), the rest of the plants will grow in underground irrigation pots.  This spring, hopefully, a small soil heating cable and better thermostats will be added.

I have a small open air kitchen garden, with a kind of simple raised beds and mulching, all the time under construction and development. In total, there's a bit over 6000 square meter plot around the house, of which only less than one third is in any kind of use, so there's still plenty of room to extend the garden...

Besides myself and the beloved plants, my family has four other member: my girlfriend, two dogs (dutch herder and kuvasz) and a horse (which unfortunately doesn't live with us at the moment). Our (semi-)country paradise is situated in the South-West Finland, quite close to the Baltic Sea coast. USDA Zone would be probably 5-something, but sometimes there's hard frost (-20-30C) for a few days in the winter, and the lack of protective snow makes it hard for the more temperate climate plants. Spring sunshine is the other problem, when there's ground frost the plants tend to dry out and die in the spring if not shaded. All this is of course meaningless with chile growing, they cannot tolerate the frost anyway. Lack of sunlight in the winter is the biggest problem in chile growing, I use fluorescent tubes for additional lighting.

How is it going with your "Tepin in cold cellar" -project. It would be interesting to know about the temperature and the condition of the plant. Take a look if it's still alive  :)

Although it drop's it's leaves in frost anyway so maybe there is not much to see at the moment.

What a wonderful and detailed overview of your garden plans, JartsaP. Thanks so much for sharing this in English!!!

Jennifer, who shares her in-town living space with 9 furkids, all feline at the moment

Lainaus käyttäjältä: "bassino"How is it going with your "Tepin in cold cellar" -project. It would be interesting to know about the temperature and the condition of the plant. Take a look if it's still alive  :)

Although it drop's it's leaves in frost anyway so maybe there is not much to see at the moment.

I haven't checked lately, but last time I was in the cellar the plant looked quite lifeless.  As I said, probably dead by now, but there's a small chance that it will remain dormant in darkness and low temperature (around +5C I think). We'll only see in the spring.

North Americans, please hear me:

Does any of you have a chance to collect seeds from Paw-Paw Asimina triloba? I bought one packet from Gardens North webstore, but had no luck germinating them. I'm also getting some seeds from *somewhere* USA via my Slovakian connect. But I would be interested in getting some fresh, viable (Asimina seeds lose their germination capacity if they are dried out) seeds from coldest possible origin and, if possible, good and tasty strain / cultivar / land race.

It would be pretty cool to grow this Annonaceae fruit tree in Finland. If it would succeed, it'd be a nice addition to the rather poor selection of fruit trees in here.

Lainaus käyttäjältä: "JartsaP"Does any of you have a chance to collect seeds from Paw-Paw Asimina triloba?

Unfortunately I do not have seeds to send to you. I have been tempted to order Paw-Paw trees from catalogs, which have them listed. I searched information about the plant and read that it may be difficult to transplant and may not grow well in our dry soil. I have never tasted them, since they are not grown commercially and I have not seen them wild in this area. The seeds need to be chilled for at least 400 hours before planting. Did you chill the seeds?

Other fruiting plants, which I have been thinking to plant are Goumi (Eleagnus multiflora) and Hardy Kiwi (Actinidea kolomikta).

Some of the seeds are still in cold treatment, buried underground in pots. So there's still hope for these. And the seeds I'm getting from Slovakia are already stratified, I've been told. But even if they germinate in the end, I'm still interested in finding some from as north and cold origin as possible. BTW: I remembered wrong, it was not from Gardens North, but from Whatcom Seeds where I obtained the first batch.

This "goumi" is all new to me, never heard of before. Looks interesting... I tried to grow Actinidia arguta but failed to germinate. It's a hardy kiwi as well. Actinidia kolomikta is very common plant in Finnish gardens, but usually only male plants are grown for their decorative value (colorful leaves). Nowadays, also female plants are sold.

I had to order "goumi" seeds straight away. Actually, I ordered both Elaeagnus multiflora and E. commutata along with a couple of other species.

Lainaus käyttäjältä: "JartsaP"
Tepin (very probably dead by now, in cold cellar overwintering experiment)

Today I fetched the poor Tepin plant from the cellar and carried it to the greenhouse. I scratched the trunk a little bit, and it looked green and living under the bark. But there's no way to really tell yet, it could still be dead. In a few days it should be clear whether it is still alive or not.   :?

Lainaus käyttäjältä: "JartsaP"Today I fetched the poor Tepin plant from the cellar and carried it to the greenhouse. I scratched the trunk a little bit, and it looked green and living under the bark. But there's no way to really tell yet, it could still be dead. In a few days it should be clear whether it is still alive or not.   :?

Any signs of life there?

After some (too) harsh, accidental cold-treatment outdoors this winter (which killed almost all my plants), two plants did just fine (c.flexuosums), two played dead (all leaves gone etc) - c.cardenasii and c.chinense. Both eventually started to grow new leaves, but only chinense survived and is now looking very healthy. Of all the others, who can say how many would have recovered, if given more time and proper conditions - because even this chinense looked like dead wood; no life in sight. Now full of it. Strange...

Lainaus käyttäjältä: "bassino"
Any signs of life there?

So far... none. But I'm still waiting, it may just be slow or the low night temps are keeping it dormant. Of course there's a slight chance that it has been dead for several months now.

I think my Tepin overwintering experiment failed. The plant is still without signs of life. But hey, you never know until you try, right?

Here is a tepin (sivuli) that I tried to kill by pruning both the roots and top....I was unable to kill it.......note new griwth on stem.

It's really pretty hard to kill a chile.......patience with the tepin.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/willard3/sivlui4.jpg)

IT'S ALIVE!

Cold cellar overwintered tepin has survived - it must have been extremely deeply dormant, for it has taken a long time to wake up. But now there's tiny new growth in some crotches.

I think this is very important new knowledge. As my opinion, this means that it might be possible to find or breed a chile, which can go dormant and stay alive even through Finnish near-arctic winter.

Lainaus käyttäjältä: "JartsaP"IT'S ALIVE!

I knew it could make it :D

Very nice experiment with significant results. Any idea how low the temperature can get in your cellar?

I don't know exactly, it's a quite old underground cellar (maakellari) and the potatoes keep well there, so I suppose it cannot be higher than +5C and not lower than 0C. But that's not so important, important thing is the fact that the plant can go dormant and stay alive in dormancy for several months in complete darkness.

This slow waking in the spring is also a good thing, early plants are very often damaged by spring frosts in here.

For the next winter, you have to try overwinter it outside under a pile of snow.   :twisted:

Lainaus käyttäjältä: "Omskakas"For the next winter, you have to try overwinter it outside under a pile of snow.   :twisted:

Actually, it could still survive. A pile of snow is a very good isolator and if the plant isn't in direct contact with the snow the very cold outer air cannot get into the snowy shelter. So I mean that the temperature wouldn't maybe drop below the temperature in the cellar. Especially if you have some spruce or pine branches(havuja? someone please translate) between the snow and the plant.

Maybe the main plant would die but I think that if you take cuttings, they would root.

So, if someone wants to spare a plant, I think it might be worth of a try.

Btw.. If someone tries this.. he/she could leave the plant outside with some berries left. Just to test if the cold air makes any changes to them. And for another reason too; if the test failes you can always comfort yourself with the berries.

Btw(2)... Maybe we here in Finland could store chillies in the backyard. If you build a huge pile of snow and ice, you could stick the fresh chillies into the pile. Perhaps they would freeze up and you could always get good chillies from the backyard. Actually, it would have some idea. You would save some space for other stuff to put into the freezer. But hey, what's more important than chillies to freeze?? Well.. fish and meat probably but still there should always be a place for the chillies in the freezer, unless if you don't use that preserving method.

(damn.. i don't have the time(or the patience) to write more. Maybe i should write a book, "Beginners thoughts of chilli growing and storing")

A large-scale test should be carried out by selecting a wide range of different chilies, at different stages of maturity. Natural selection would step in here and take care of the plants that are the least adaptable to colder climates and/or a prolonged dormant state. The survivors of the first winter would get harvested the following summer and those seeds would be planted right after they mature, in the fall, and have a chance to grow a while before the cold sets in again -> this would establish an annual cycle for the plant to follow. When the next summer comes, if you still have survivors, you'd have third generation, cold-climate -chilies ready to go on.

..that is, if all goes perfectly.

I suppose one would need at least 5-10 plants of, say, 10-15 varieties. Of those varieties that do survive, each variety would be carried on with at least 50 plants per each variety that survived towards the next season. This experiment needs quite a bit of room and time and could stand as the ultimate chili project for Finnish growers in 2007.

Would there be interest in a large-scale, widespread and well documented project like this? If yes, we need to get going on laying out the details and plans by the end of the year.



-Sale

JartsaP, your root cellar Tepin being alive is great news. So chiles can be grown as perennials like some tender flowers which my mother-in-aw used to keep in their root cellar. Storing the plants in a root cellar may be better than    in our ordinary basement, which stays warmer and the plants do not go totally dormant.

One important aspect of having wild northern chile is the seed germination in nature. I had some ornamental chiles outside in their pots over the winter. Spring time I tried germinating the seeds from ripe pods, but none of them sprouted. I have heard that chile seeds will germinate, if they have been enough dry before freezing. I have an other trial in a corner of our yard. I buried a lot of pepper seeds into the ground last fall. So far I have not seen any sprouts.

Well, I consider this as a kind of "opposite" branch of investigation, comparing to the idea of a wild annual chile, which could quickly set fruit during the summer and stay alive as seeds over winter. In best case, it may even be possible to obtain both, perennial and annual hardy chile, but I'm not entirely sure if one plant can ever have both features.

Dormant plant can survive much worse conditions than what it would otherwise, but there's still a huge difference betweeen cellar +5 and outdoor -30C. Here, near South-West coast of Finland we don't usually get very much protecting snow before frosts, so the plants often have to take severe frost without it.  Spring frosts can also go down to -10C without any snow cover.

Lainaus käyttäjältä: "JartsaP"IT'S ALIVE!

Cold cellar overwintered tepin has survived - it must have been extremely deeply dormant, for it has taken a long time to wake up. But now there's tiny new growth in some crotches.

I think this is very important new knowledge. As my opinion, this means that it might be possible to find or breed a chile, which can go dormant and stay alive even through Finnish near-arctic winter.

This is an interesting subject, indeed... From my accidental cold-test of last winter, one Brazilean chinense survived - all the others died, meaning most of my plants. One cardenasii almost made it, as did one Tepin.

Yet, two mature flexuosums had no problems handling even constant freezing conditions. That certainly surprised me... Tough little fellows. Flexuosum just might be able to handle southern Finland's climate somehow, since it tends to be a very early bloomer and doesn't seem to mind even temps of -5C or so. Chances are that it'd have enough time to prepare its seeds in time... Something to test, isn't it? :) The only problem: since it's a very, very rare plant, who'd have heart to torture his/her precious plant like that..? Well, I did last winter - but as said, it was an accident. ;)  I hope this year my 3 flexus would produce enough seeds for giving away. Did I say 3? Well, yes... My older flexu had a baby! :) Apparently, a fallen fruit produced a new surprise seedling beside her mother... I love those plants, absolutely!

One small problem with the cellar-tepin: it has not even started to flower yet, I think there are few flower buds now, but it's definately too late for it to produce ripe fruit before winter, even in the greenhouse. So its dormancy was way too deep (or our summer is too short).

Does anybody have any idea, if C. flexuosum can be crossed with any other Capsicum species? If it has so good cold tolerancy, it might be worth trying.

Lainaus käyttäjältä: "JartsaP"One small problem with the cellar-tepin: it has not even started to flower yet, I think there are few flower buds now, but it's definately too late for it to produce ripe fruit before winter, even in the greenhouse. So its dormancy was way too deep (or our summer is too short).

Does anybody have any idea, if C. flexuosum can be crossed with any other Capsicum species? If it has so good cold tolerancy, it might be worth trying.

Brazilean researchers have suggested (even before this new info about cold-resistance) that flexuosum should be closely investigated for breeding/crossing purposes... There isn't reliable public information yet. Flexuosum can't really be grown in balcony conditions since it doesn't appear to be very self-compatible. It would need insects, several plants etc. in order to produce fruit, let alone cross with other capsicums. So, it's a project I can't do in my current setup - but those of you with own gardens etc, please go on! :)

New photo of my "cellar-tepin" posted to overwintering thread in Finnish:
http://javu.kapsi.fi/inferno/viewtopic.php?p=21964#21964

Flowering and some fruits even maturing slowly. I still think that this plant still being alive is a huge thing.

I'm already considering new ways to torment this persistent plant. Maybe I'll just leave it to the greenhouse, or try to overwinter it in the ground with some protection. I'm beginning to believe that it might survive even that... But hey, I also grow grapevines outdoors (and in the greenhouse, where I have just been eating my first home grown grapes ever), and I have three pear trees on front lawn, in Finland... Both may sound strange, but I also know people who have succesfully overwintered the most hardy palms, cactuses and figs out in the ground in the warmest parts of our country, so nothing is impossible. (Btw. if anybody has some 'Brown Turkey' fig cuttings to offer, I'd be happy to trade).