Very slow growing. Two months old and 1.5 inches high.
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/57818822.jpg)
Wow, very nice John! I've never seen a picture of it. It would be interesting to see it growing so please keep on posting pictures here.
Uh oh :shock: That`s a real special plant there! Looks almost like it has small thorns on the leaf edges?
From what I read it`s highly endangered? Please do your best to spread the seed to keep them hanging on (I`m sure you`ll do just that).
Not thorny-just hairy. I will baby it and hope it produces.
A description from 1974 : "a slender shrub with leaves in pairs, very unequal in size and different shape, the larger leaves mostly lanceolate and the smaller leaves ovate"--Gentry and Standley
Nice, John!
It looks really good! And even though the seedling is still quite small, it's already possible to see the different leaf shapes on it :D
Well done! I hope this plants gets very productive at some point so the future of this species will be brighter!
i've never even heard about it, hope you get it to bare fruits.
Wow... That's a rare one! :)
Good luck with that baby - I doubt there are many in the world these days... Let's hope we can all one day share seeds of these very rare plants to help to keep them alive!
Wow John, 2 1/2 months of growth and only 5-6 leaves. It seems like getting ripe fruit from this species will be quite a challenge.
Out of curiousity, how does the growth rate of C. Galapagoense compare? I have one plant started, but the growth rate is so slow. I am not sure if it's stunted and won't go much further or the normal growth rate is like this.
Chris
Chris
The first time I grew them they were very slow to germinate and grew very slowly at first but eventually grew more rapidly. A friend reported slow germination but rapid growth.
i wonder why people always seem to grow those that are more slow and difficult in soil?
shouldnt hydro help with those more nasty varietes?
Damn!
Way to go Johnny-boy!!! :D
Finally something new!
Hope I'll be able to get those seeds soon!
I'd definitely grow that one on hydroponic system!
Lainaus käyttäjältä: "Amd"i wonder why people always seem to grow those that are more slow and difficult in soil?
shouldnt hydro help with those more nasty varietes?
Well, I personally have a totally different approach to wild species than to chiles I grow mainly/only for eating. It's much more interesting to see them grow in a more natural way.
Fatalii has one C. galapagoense growing in hydro. Interesting to see how big and productive it gets. http://juuri.org/fatalii/?u=g&c=new&id=3747
Well that's true, but the ones that have been grown on soil already... it's fun to try them on hydro to see how they grow! :)
My galapagoense on the soil is still small tiny seedling.
I managed to kill most of my truly rare, interesting capsicums during this winter, due to conditions I couldn't control... :( Still, some survived, giving valuable information. For example, two different specimens of c.flexuosums proved to be superior in their cold-tolerance to anything (capsicum) I've ever grown...
Also, at least one c.cardenasii/eximium plant survived the freezing temperatures of a Finnish balcony, and seems to be ready for a new growing season! I hope to see some similar, brave, surprises, although the chances are thin...
It's good if many enough people try to grow these wild, rare, endangered plants, in different conditions. From my own experience, many if not most wild capsicums prefer quite different growing conditions from their domesticated relatives. Some (like c.praetermissum, c.chacoense, certain types of c.cardenasii) seem to love almost any conditions. Others, however, can be very picky and thus very difficult to grow...
Still, I don't think too many people have tried to grow c.galapagoense in a Hydro... So these things are definitely worth a try! ;)
John,please post any new photos you take of the Lanceolatum, I`ll pop a beer for every new leaf! :wink:
Bad news/Good news
The first lanceolatum is in very poor health. The only thing that gives me any hope for recovery is that the process has been slow.
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/58717192.jpg)
Another germinated--a month after the first and it looks good so far
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/58717190.jpg)
Ouch! :( But that second one looks healthier already?
This is probably a stupid question,but in both pics the substrate looks very wet; are you sure that`s not an issue?
Nike
Not a stupid question. It may be a factor (or not) because I did keep the first one damper than usual because it is supposed to be found in "damp forests" --that may have been a mistake. The second continues to do well--picture later.
Lainaus käyttäjältä: "JohnF"Nike
Not a stupid question. It may be a factor (or not) because it det keep the first one damper than usual because it is supposed to be found in "damp forests" --that may have been a mistake. The second continues to do well--picture later.
The ideal growing conditions of these wild devils seem to be a mystery in many cases... Treating them like "ordinary annuums" quite often seems to lead to failures, and yet again it's russian roulet to learn by "trial and error" with rare, even unique plants... I guess it's a part of the horrible fascination of this hobby. ;)
I guess there's quite many of us here holding breath and keeping thumbs up for your little lancies! :)
A damp forest may mean a humid air and shadowy conditions,with well draining soil... but, I would go with "neutral" conditions first.
Lainaus käyttäjältä: "Nike"A damp forest may mean a humid air and shadowy conditions,with well draining soil...
This sounds the same as optimal for Saintpaulias. I did not have luck growing them until I found self watering African Violet pots from Home Depot. Now I have been able to keep the plants alive and flowering for many years. I grow even some of my ornamental chiles in these pots.
John, check these (http://www.violetpot.com)out. Maybe the Lanceolatum would like to grow in such.
Thanks for the link--will check them out.
Almost 5" high!
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/59323552.jpg)
Looking good! How about the other one? Is it still alive?
I fear the first may be a goner but I am still hoping for a miraculous recovery
Lainaus käyttäjältä: "JohnF"Almost 5" high!
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/59323552.jpg)
Very pretty, reminds me of c.flexuosum...
Bravo!! :D
Now 8" and growing
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/60331671.jpg)
That`s one beautiful capsicum! :shock: :D
Lainaus käyttäjältä: "Nike"That`s one beautiful capsicum! :shock: :D
A beauty, indeed! :) And looks more and more like flexuosum. Makes one wonder whether there's some link between the species... Can hardly wait to get a chance to grow lanceolatum myself some day!
There does seem to be some resemblance. I wonder if all the wild species aren't closer to each other than the domesticated species? Galapagoense does have different traits but it comes from an isolated enviornment.Here are a couple of flexuosum pics
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/60517425.jpg)
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/60517426.jpg)
A great Beauty, that one, too! :)
Both of my flexuosum plants (of different origin) are now starting to bloom on my glassed balcony...
I think, there seems to be even a bit surprising diversity between the wild capsicums... Until now, I hadn't seen anything even remotely similar to c.flexuosum, for example. Galapagoense is quite different, but so are chacoenses, tovariis, rhomboideums, eximiums, praetermissums, etc.
There's been - so far - one wild example that really puzzles me. That's CGN-19198 - a very, very strange plant... It looks like c.eximium - and it looks like c.praetermissum. Yet, it doesn't fit very well in either category. So far I've considered it to be a c.eximium -variant, even though at CGN they actually re-named if from eximium to praetermissum. ;)
I also once grew a very strange, quite mild (!) Tepin variety PI199506 from Guyana. The appearance of this huge plant was strange enough to make me wonder whether it was a Tepin (wild annuum) at all.
And then there's that wonderful tiny wild frutescens PI-632932 from Guatemala... Again, something so un-Tepin-like that it makes one wonder.
As far as the classification of seed banks, it does not seem to be reliable ( from three I have had experience with). I received several samples of C. eximium from IPK but they turned out to be several species other than eximium. I sent pictures to Dr Bosland and only one of the samples was C. eximium. He said the defining characteristic for C. eximium is green spots on the corolla.
CAP 503 C. eximium
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/37627812.jpg)
The first part of this gallery shows the others along with Dr. Boslands determination of correct species
http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/cap
As for the other wilds they seem , to me, ( other than galapagoense) to have a similar growth habit
Bird,Wild--one of the annuums
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/60549475.jpg)
C. praetermissum #3
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/60549476.jpg)
CAP 503-C. eximium
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/60549477.jpg)
cardenasii
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/60549478.jpg)
Chiltepin,Sonoran-one of the annuums
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/60549479.jpg)
Cobinch-C. exile ( chacoense)
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/60549481.jpg)
C. flexuosum
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/60549482.jpg)
Miniature-a wild pepper from Bolivia-species unknown
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/60549483.jpg)
Mississippi Bird's Eye-one of the annuums
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/60549484.jpg)
PI 260595-C. baccatum var. praetermissum
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/60549485.jpg)
Ulupica de Bolivia
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/60549486.jpg)
John,
That C. Eximium flower is just gorgeous! I'd have to say that's the prettiest pepper flower I have ever seen.
Chris
Lainaus käyttäjältä: "cmpman1974"John,
That C. Eximium flower is just gorgeous! I'd have to say that's the prettiest pepper flower I have ever seen.
Chris
Truly! The problem btw between c.eximium/cardenasii/praetermissum is that the flowers can be *very* similar... Some examples from Inferno: http://www.saunalahti.fi/thietavu/Chili/T_Scanned.htm
The plants are somewhat different, though. Still, makes one wonder whether there's a relationship between the eximiums and praetermissums...
The eximium flower seems distinct to me. The mystery for me is the C. pratermissum vs. C. baccatum var. praetermissum. Two species or different names for the same--two schools of thought on that.
Here are pictures of flowers from each. The first five, starting in the upper left corner, are identified as C. pratermissum and the last five are identified as C. baccatum var. praetermissum
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/60623428.jpg)
I think, there's something quite strange about the categarization of many wild species. According to A.T.Hunziker, c.cardenasii and c.eximium are one and the same plant - and c.eximium var. tomentosum possibly a species of its own. To my limited knowledge, c.praetermissum and c.baccatum var. praetermissum are just two different ways to describe the same plant.
As our leading (my honest opinion) capsicum expert in Finland, Fatalii, has already suspected, I think there may be hidden relationships between certain species like c.eximium, c.praetermissum, c.baccatum and c.pubescens that haven't been found yet - or at least not reported properly.
CGN19198 variety truly makes one think, since it resembles both some eximium/cardenasiis and some praetermissums. And yet, it's different from both...
Also, very, very interesting are the "Rocopicas" - either natural or man-made crossings of c.pubescens "Rocoto" and c.eximiums "Ulupica"... That's the only known link to Rocoto's origins - but there's a lot we don't know. It seems like in Bolivia, there's a huge variety of plants called "Ulupica" which may or may not have c.pubescens genes. That has, again, resulted in wild plants with berries of varied sizes.
The mess with c.cardenasii/c.eximium classification just might well result from this: some of the plants found have been truly wild, some have certainly been natural crossings btw c.eximium x c.pubescens - and many have been somewhere in between... And the researchers have named them as different species - sometimes as eximium, sometimes as cardenasii, according to e.g. the size of the berry.
What makes this interesting is that there's, I think, a great chance that some of these crossings btw c.eximium and c.pubescens may have happened thousands of years ago. And therefore, some of those crossings may well have stabilized themselves into true new wild varieties. For example, my two "Rocopica" plants with large berries (1 cm diameter) are exactly similar. They do appear like true wild capsicums.
And what wonderful plants they are..!!! Definitely among my favourites by any measure! Hot as hell, tasty, easy to grow and quite pretty, too. :)
Interesting. I was under the impression that the Rocopica was not a natural cross but engineered by this guy http://www.rocoto.com/
The version I grew came ( second hand) from seeds from him
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/42380595.jpg)
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/42380596.jpg)
What was your seed source? It might be interesting to trace the sources of various growers
Lainaus käyttäjältä: "JohnF"Interesting. I was under the impression that the Rocopica was not a natural cross but engineered by this guy http://www.rocoto.com/
The version I grew came ( second hand) from seeds from him
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/42380595.jpg)
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/42380596.jpg)
What was your seed source? It might be interesting to trace the sources of various growers
It's more than a little confusing... ;) What you say is true - that's (AFAIK) the origin of the variety called "Rocopica". What makes things more interesting is that, for example, in USDA seed bank there's a wild c.cardenasii variety from Bolivia with a description exactly like "Rocopica". It seems like "Rocopica" -type grows both (semi?)wild and domesticated, and that the wild forms are probably stabilized forms of either man-made or natural crossings btw c.cardenasii/eximium and c.pubescens.
Because of all this mess, I've myself decided to call all small-berried forms of these particular plants as c.eximium (A.T. Hunziker's recommendation) and the big-berried forms as "Rocopicas". It seems to me like some of the plants classified as c.cardenasii might actually be these "Rocopicas", semi-wild capsicums. It also seems like many researchers have named small-berried forms wildly either as eximiums or cardenasii with no clear logic behind it...
My seed source may have been Mats Pettersson, but I'm not sure any longer - my plants are rather old. Their berries, however, seem to be smaller than the ones in your photo, and also completely round. They drop very easily when touched (typical to wild capsicums). -Their flowers are also strongly bell-shaped, and thus quite different from Rocotos I've seen. The flowers in your photo look more like Rocoto flowers. Interesting mystery... ;)
Because of all this mess, I've myself decided to call all small-berried forms of these particular plants as c.eximium (A.T. Hunziker's recommendation) and the big-berried forms as "Rocopicas". It seems to me like some of the plants classified as c.cardenasii might actually be these "Rocopicas", semi-wild capsicums. It also seems like many researchers have named small-berried forms wildly either as eximiums or cardenasii with no clear logic behind it...
My opinion ,but I think that just adds to the confusion. It is very difficult to determine pepper species based on pods. There is already a lot of confusion with pepper names.
Lainaus käyttäjältä: "JohnF"My opinion ,but I think that just adds to the confusion. It is very difficult to determine pepper species based on pods. There is already a lot of confusion with pepper names.
That may be true. Then again, I guess the confusion around this trio: c.eximium - cardenasii - pubescens with or without crossings is already pretty perfect. ;) In this case, the size of the berries appears to be quite a good indicator of at least one thing. If the berries are small (ca. 5mm), then we certainly talk about wild c.eximiums. If they are large (10mm or so), then we talk about semi-domesticated types with genes from c.pubescens. Those are the two distinctive main classes of certain Bolivian capsicums. The only truly problematic name is c.cardenasii which Hunziker omitted totally - perhaps because its definition is very unclear.
But who knows... :wink:
I am not a botanist so I won't go further with the pod issue except to say I don't agree.
As for Rocopica it seems like the cross it is purported to be. All my pods were like those pictured and they were thick fleshed like the pubescens with dark brown pubescens-like seeds. I had two types of flowers -one being more bell-like-or maybe they became less so as they matured
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/60729312.jpg)
Lainaus käyttäjältä: "JohnF"I am not a botanist so I won't go further with the pod issue except to say I don't agree.
As for Rocopica it seems like the cross it is purported to be. All my pods were like those pictured and they were thick fleshed like the pubescens with dark brown pubescens-like seeds. I had two types of flowers -one being more bell-like-or maybe they became less so as they matured
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/60729312.jpg)
I'm no botanist either, so chances are that I don't know what I'm talking about. ;) Wouldn't be the first - or the last - time...
Both of my plants produce flowers and fruit like these:
(http://www.saunalahti.fi/thietavu/Chili/Wild/Ca_kukka_02.jpg)
(http://www.saunalahti.fi/thietavu/Chili/Wild/Ca_Cardenasii_ripe_02.jpg)
It would be interesting to know what has become of the seeds my two plants have produced. Are all the resulting plants similar, meaning a pretty stabilized variety, or has anyone had clearly pubescens-like or very small-berried plants..?
Were the fruit of yours thick fleshed like a pubescens? Were the seeds dark? I have not grown out the seeds from mine so don't know what they will produce. Next winter I hope to concentrate on the wild varieties. Two winteres ago I started several of the wild species with the idea of doing some crossing experiments but had an infestation of mites and had to chuck them all. This summer I have cut way back and am only growing a few of them along with a some other peppers that are new to me.
Back to the lanceolatum which was the original subject of this thread--I was going to wait until it opened but....
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/60774011.jpg)
Well that's an interesting flowerbud! Cant wait to see it opened. It seems that you are taking good care of it as it flowers already.
Lainaus käyttäjältä: "JohnF"Were the fruit of yours thick fleshed like a pubescens? Were the seeds dark? I have not grown out the seeds from mine so don't know what they will produce. Next winter I hope to concentrate on the wild varieties. Two winteres ago I started several of the wild species with the idea of doing some crossing experiments but had an infestation of mites and had to chuck them all. This summer I have cut way back and am only growing a few of them along with a some other peppers that are new to me.
Back to the lanceolatum which was the original subject of this thread--I was going to wait until it opened but....
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/60774011.jpg)
Wow - that's quite a moment to celebrate! :-)
btw: my "Rocopica" berries have thicker flesh than some other wild capsicums, but nowhere near c.pubescens -type. The seeds are mid-brown.
Lainaus käyttäjältä: "thietavu"Lainaus käyttäjältä: "JohnF"I am not a botanist so I won't go further with the pod issue except to say I don't agree.
I'm no botanist either, so chances are that I don't know what I'm talking about. ;) Wouldn't be the first - or the last - time...
I am. ;)
I don't know much about the species you are discussing about, but I do know that quantitative traits (eg. berry size) may or may not be something you can distinguish different species. If there is't (much) overlapping in berry size between two species, it might be a good way to do so. However, if you look at the non-wild species, you see that in Capsicum genus berry size varies a lot within a species. So if I had to guess, I'd agree with JohnF.
The wild capsicum berries seem to have a very uniform size and shape. A berry of 10mm diameter is something I haven't heard any other wild capsicum having. Please, correct me if I'm wrong here. So, in that sense, the "large-berried" variety of c.eximium/cardenasii seems to be unique - no matter whether it's a fresh crossing or a stabilized wild or semi-wild form...
It's true that the size and shape of cultivated peppers seems to vary a lot. However, I haven't seen much of such variety in wild peppers. What seems to make "Rocopica" or the large-berried Bolivian wild pepper kind of special is that there's nothing quite like it elsewhere. The closest thing to it might be the semi-domesticated Pequin version of wild annuums...
Lots of things to research, we do have here...
It opened!
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/61090505.jpg)
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/61090504.jpg)
That is propably the most beautiful flower I ever seen.
Take good care of it so we get to see the fruit too! :D
Lainaus käyttäjältä: "JohnF"It opened!
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/61090505.jpg)
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/61090504.jpg)
Beautiful..!!! Would you mind if I put one or two of your C.L photos visible on Inferno's wild capsicums -section? With your copyright info, of course. This is unique, indeed...
you may post the pictures--I won't be able to read it correct? :(
An extraordinary flower indeed! Those backward turning calyxes make it very exotic looking; reminds me of the Original Star Trek- series :D Maybe Tommi (Thietavu) can write the description in english, too?
BTW,why can`t I see the pics in your threads, John, with Mozilla Firefox? But IE works fine :?
Lainaus käyttäjältä: "Nike"An extraordinary flower indeed! Those backward turning calyxes make it very exotic looking; reminds me of the Original Star Trek- series :D Maybe Tommi (Thietavu) can write the description in english, too?
BTW,why can`t I see the pics in your threads, John, with Mozilla Firefox? But IE works fine :?
What firewall are you using? It's sometimes a combination of firewall settings (I had to mess with my ZoneAlarm settings to make images visible) and Firefox's security settings.
Weird... I thought that flower looked different in a good way...like a Maserati or Maybach among "normal" cars. I guess I'm not the only one.
When are seeds going to be available? ;)
-Sale
I have Sygate- firewall. NO idea about any settings, though ;)
I'm no computer expert--pictures work fine for me with Mozilla, IE, and AOL.
Lainaus käyttäjältä: "JohnF"you may post the pictures--I won't be able to read it correct? :(
Thanks a Million, John! I'll do a translation there as well - that section of Inferno is already partly translated, but still too much "work in progress"...
Update--now about 13" high and 23" wide--has produced a couple more flowers but no fruit. Am growing as all the others for now.
(http://www.pbase.com/chiles400/image/63157000.jpg)
Looking great!!!
That plant will be more or less one of the very few plants I'll be growing during the winter. :)
It's one of four 26-chromosome wonders - like the very strange c.rhomboideum... Because of this, I guess it should be incapable of crossing with just about any other chili. Unless...
Just realized that those two plants seem to grow in about the same geographical area. Makes one wonder if they're related although they look very different...
Btw, some capsicums worth growing, I'd suppose:
- C.parvifolium (grows as true tree)
- C.villosum (hairy like galapagoense!)
etc etc etc... :)
Someone somewhere *must* have collected seeds... ;-)
Great work with lanceolatum, John!!
Harvested first ripe pod today from C. Lanceolatum....small berry like pod..ripened to red. Has about 15-20 very small black seeds in it.
Unfortunately, pod production is dismal so far. I'm overwintering to try for more. I didn't taste pod #1. I will next time. :lol:
I was surprised because I was expected more like 2-3 seeds in a pod based on rumors about C. Flexuosum.
Chris
Photos!!! :D
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a283/cmpman1974/2006%20Peppers%20-%20Pod%20Pics/th_P1030002.jpg) (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a283/cmpman1974/2006%20Peppers%20-%20Pod%20Pics/P1030002.jpg)
I hope this works correctly. I'm still learning how to post photos. :D
Chris
It does!!
WOW!!
Respect!
Looks _VERY_ different kind of Capsicum...
I have few seeds that just sprouted, can't wait to see it grow!
Thanks for the info about the seed amounts, very interesting!
That's indeed a very different plant!
The leaves are really long (I guess the name comes from that ;-))
Looking forward to trying this one as well!
I tasted this pepper for the first time this morning. Medium heat level - initial burn - faded pretty fast - no detectable flavor. Definitely not one with much culinary use.
Chris
Lainaus käyttäjältä: "cmpman1974"I tasted this pepper for the first time this morning. Medium heat level - initial burn - faded pretty fast - no detectable flavor. Definitely not one with much culinary use.
Chris
In that sense a lot like c.tovarii and most wild species, I guess... Still, who knows what kinds of beneficial features these plants may own. Just think about c.flexuosum - not only cold-resistant, but even somewhat freeze-resistant. A capsicum - who'd have thought..?
Some pics of my C. lanceolatum plants :) Thanks, Fatalii, for the cuttings!
(http://ftp.pimentas.org:10080/pimentas_forum_files/lance_fruit1_153.jpg)
Fruiting nicely.
(http://ftp.pimentas.org:10080/pimentas_forum_files/lance_fruit2_156.jpg)
Stupid aphid! Time for some neem!
(http://ftp.pimentas.org:10080/pimentas_forum_files/lance_flower_672.jpg)
Still flowering a lot!
Very nice.