passive hydroponic system for beginner

[sali]

hi everybody!

I'm completely new to the whole chili-growing idea, but I am quite excited about it. I planted a couple of seeds last week (Criolla Sella, Inca Red Drop and some mexican sort). So far they grow in some sort of sandy cactus and germinating soil and more than half of the seeds have already germinated.
What i basically wanted to ask is if it good to use passive hydroponic systems for growing chiles indoors? After reading through the forums and the growing guides I get the idea, that hydroponic growing is much faster and more efficient than soil based growing. However, when i followed some of the links to hydroponic growing systems, I was quite surprised about the prices of these systems! then I saw that the passive hydroponic systems are MUCH cheaper...

http://www.viherpeukku.fi/catalog/index.php?cPath=95_133

That's why I thought, that I could grow my chiles in that sort of a system (am a student and can't affors the expensive systems). Would that work if I combine this passive hydroponic system with some ground meant for herbs (the "Yrttimulta" that I can buy in finland)?
And it also seems that I will need some fluorescent lamp to get some good growth. Which one would be good for use for just a couple of plants with finnish light-conditions (I looked again at some links, but then the information was in finnish, but I don't speak yet good enough finnish to understand those things).

my ultimate goal would then be to get some nice Chili-bonsais..  I really loved the growing guides about those and those small plants look really amazing!

Thanks for any advice for a complete noob 

[Luches]

Hi sali,

I have have had a look at those passive pots and supply and it may indeed be a budget minded solution in your case.
The only thing is that you may be disappointed with the growing rates. Especially when comparing to some performances of active hydroponics. Another point may be the sensitiveness to PH and moisture of Chili plants, that could cause some problems in passive systems.

As for my part I can only guess and not give any objective advice for actual advantages and disadvantages of passive systems, as I haven't used any. Yet, I imagine cultivating your chili plants wether in active hydroponics or even in soil, to grow them to a decent size first. Cutting them back and cultivate them only then in these passive systems would be my choice. With Chili-bonsais ("Bonchis"), growing rates aren't the point, right?

Btw: have you considered building a active hydroponic system yourself? Have you got the skills and the toolset?
There are many easy to build and quite economic plans around.

PS: I haven't bought a single system but designed and build about 20 myself.

[sali]

Hi Luches,

Thanks for your reply! Is it not so that even passive hydroponic systems have higher growth rates than conventional growing in soil? I know that growth rate shouldn't be the issue with Bonchis.   However I'm not exactly the most patient guy and would like to see some results in a reasonable time. I'm just afraid that conventional growing of Chili-plants in Finland with the low amount of light we got here will take forever...
So far I haven't grown any chilis and all my other plants are growing in soil. So maybe I should just simply do the same with the chili-plants and train my patience

Which type of soil would actually be best for growing Chilis?

On the other hand, I haven't really considered building an active hydroponic system myself, but if it's not too difficult, I might look into that. I am not very experienced with his kind of work, but I guess I could at least give it a try. I assume that one can build this kind of systems in any size, or? Don't have too much space available in my apartment and my girlfriend might object if I reserve the little free space we have for some chilis 

[Rankkapanda]

I would personally recommend a bubler, cheap and effective way of active hydroponics. All you would need is an air pump, some rubberhose for the airpump, a 50mm pot, some expanded clay, rockwool cube(s), airrock (only word I can make up for that) , bucket or you can get a plastic container of any size and shape, for more plants of course.

Then you would need to drill a hole in the lid of the bucket, or other plastic container for the airhose. Then drill another hole, just alot bigger then the one before, for the 50mm pot (there are special drill ends or what they're called, that will drill a hole for the 50mm pot). After that you put the hose trough the lid and connect the airrock, and the pot trough the lid. Then the chili goes to the pot, when it has roots coming out of  the rockwool, after germination, so you don't have to fill the bucket full of water. After you have the hose and chili there, you just fill the bucket with water, and some fertilizer for hydroponic systems, and plug the airhose to the airpump and plug it in. I tried to explain it as easy as I could. But it doesn't cause much to nothing, when you search  differents stores, etc. for the cheapest parts. Viherpeukku is a little on the expensive side, but on the other hand they have everything you would need, except the buckets or plastic containers.



This is an old picture, but it shows that it works. The chillies in the picture were less than a month in these buckets, and less than 5cm when i started. Now almost all are about over one meter, and looking pretty good. And btw, in Prismas and other stores there are 30 watt CFL bulbs for about 10 euros, an they work well at least on smaller chillies. They just need a lamp, with a E27 socket.  My Madame Jeanettes were also less than 5 cm in height, but in 3-4 weeks time, they're already over 30 cm in passive hydroponic.

Last, but not least, you have to change the water about once a week, so the roots don't start to rot.

[Luches]

Hi sali,

I guess that grow rates of passive hydro (compared to soil culture) really depends on how you handle it, what nutrients you use and how much discipline you have got. In other words, how much experience and know-how you have and can use. Anything new tends to be more difficult to handle as the well known. Passive hydro needs more attention as soil culture anyway, when cultivating rather sensitive plants as chilis. Just a set of suggestions.

As for self-build (active) devices, I strongly recommend you to make yourself acquainted with all the possibilities you have got. As well as from a budget-, skills-, space- and "eaz to use " prospective. As Einstein said so nicely: "keep it simple but not too simple!" Take your time to chose from all the designs and options there are.

For any self build indoor setup, don't forget that there are some things to keep in mind that aren't obvious in the first place. Especially when dealing with a rather meticulous and "control-disorder" g-f. Just kidding!!!

1. 101% watertight
2. Easy to change nutrients, easy to clean without messing.
3. Preview some support when plants grow bigger.
4. Esthetics are not a must (for some people) but can be of advantage.
5. Discipline in the long run with monitoring or changing nutrients.

Cheers,

Luc

[Bugger]

I´ve been growing chilies in passive hydro´s this summer. The reason I chose to try them was that I´m so lazy, I figured they require very little maintenance (watering). This has certainly been true, with the amount of rain here this summer, I still haven´t watered them after potting!!! How ever I had to drill holes to the buckets sides, to prevent over watering.

Just as Fatalii told me in another thread (http://chilifoorumi.fi/index.php?topic=6037.0), the key to healty plants in passive hydros seems to be the waterlevel. Unfortunately I drilled the holes to the max water mark, and that is too high, so I still have to manually drain excess water out occasionaly... The pots I made seem to work best with waterlevels between 2cm to 3/4 full, so for next summer I´ll make new holes, so the waterlevel will stay under 3/4 level.

As for bonchi growing, I don´t think hydroponics is a good choise, because it´s soilless, and the decoration of the soil is also a big part of that. These systems use expanded clay, vulcaponic or similar growing medias. I think that using soil in these pots might cause root rot or mold problems? But if You are in a hurry, You can offcourse first grow plants in hydros, and then cut them down and repot them to bonchi pots. For fast growth, I´d go with aeroponic systems, they are also easy to build (http://www.stonerforums.com/lounge/diy-how/10600-how-build-aeroponics-system.html), and the growing rate should be incredible from what I`ve heard!

[sali]

Thanks to all for the replies!

I think the instructions and the picture from Rankkapanda convinced me to try to build the same kind of system. It really doesn't look very difficult so i guess that even though I'm no McGyver, I might manage to construct something like that
I was just wondering that the relation of a 50mm pot to a 10 (?) liter bucket (in the picture) seem a little bit odd... I mean, are the buckets not oversized for the size of the pod? But on the other hand I guess it doesn't matter. Anyway, is such a system with a passive water supply but active air administration considered a passive or an active hydroponic system?

I'd have one or 2 more questions:
Right now the seeds have germinated and the plants are ~4 cm high and are growing in a sandy soil meant for germination of seeds and for cactuses. When and how should I transfer them to the pots for hydroponic growth? I mean if I just wash the soil of and put the plant to the 50 mm pot and fill it up with expanded clay, would the roots not get smashed? Should I leave some of the sand around the roots?

Rankkapanda, could you please tell me the name/brand of the fluorescent bulb you are using? As I have no idea about those and yours seem to work fine, I could then just get the same in Prisma or some store like that.

I am planning to build 2 of the baskets Rankkapanda describes in his post and grow the rest of the seedlings conventionally in soil. But which soil should I use for Chilis?

For now that would be it 
Thanks to all of you for your help! Quite funny how some small seeds can suddenly become so important 

/Sali

[sali]

Hi again,

Just been reading through some threads here and there I found one http://chilifoorumi.fi/index.php?topic=5598.0  in which Fatalii says that an water-pump is much more efficient than an air-pump. They are'nt even so much more more expensive than air-pumps...  http://www.viherpeukku.fi/catalog/index.php?cPath=95_99

Now I was wondering how they work? If I'd build the same system as Rankkapanda, would it work then if the water in the bucket is just simply running through the pump or do I need a reservoir from which the water pump is pumping all the time fresh water into the basket from which is has to go then to another reservoir (or back to the one from which the pump is then pumping it back to the bucket?
Somehow an air-pump seems to be simpler and safer to use than the waterpump... Any suggestions ideas about what would be the best/most cost-efficient solution?

[Bugger]

Using a waterpump, You just put the pump in the bucket, and put a hose from the pump to the pot. The water will flow thru the pot into the bucket. You will also likely use a timer to set the pump on and off, and somesort of an dripper at the end of the hose. This would be a drip feed system, quite close to the aeroponic setups.

There are a lot of instructions for various hydroponic systems on the net, and on this site also. Youtube might also be a good place to seek information.

As for the best/most cost-efficient solution... This is a nice hobby...it will eat all Your extra space and money...

[Rankkapanda]

Hi again. Well you can use bigger than 50mm pots, but most of my chilis don't have such a thick stem, so they fit well, but the roots are like insanely spreading. This might look like there isn't alot of roots, but they're just all stuck now.



I recommend you would move the chilis from soil to hydroponics when they have some roots, so like 10cm tall or something like that (I know mine were less than 5cm, but anyways). Then you wash the soil off and as careful as you can, put the chilis roots trough the 50mm pot (or whatever you decide on the size), add expanded clay and just fill the bucket with water and nutrients, connect the hose and all. Then just watch them grow when the system works it's magic . The expanded clay if very light, so it won't crush the roots, unless you press them down.

The bulbs are Airam Longlife E27 30W. They cost like 10,95€ in Prisma if I remember correctly.

And about the airpump/waterpump debate.

I like the easy use of airpump (waterpump gets roots in there and that's a problem)
I've never used a waterpump, but I dont think chilies can grow much faster than what mine grew. From 5cm to 55cm in one month and that's 1,67cm per day . Two months and it's one meter and spreading.
You can get an airpump with 4 hose outputs and you can even put an Y-piece, so it doubles the amount of possible buckets and you still only need one electric output, since it's only one pump.
You can get one with 4 outputs for 20 euros from here and it makes like 5 euros per bucket and if you use Y-pieces, then it's only 2,5 euros per bucket . Only problem it is in finnish, but there's always Google Translate .

[sali]

THANKS

I'm getting all excited here!    Rankkapandas system looks so easy and convincing that I'll just build one like that. I guess I'll just use 2 buckets One for a Criolla Sella and one for Inca red drop. then I can buy this one pump with 4 exits, put 2 "airrocks" in each bucket and then watch my chilis grow

But now I gotta go back to work...

[Fatalii]

If you choose to grow with active hydroponic system, choose EBB & flood, the easiest and most efficient.

'Nuff said.

[sali]

It might be that Ebb & Flow is a more efficient way of growing plant, but I already started to buy the stuff for the system rankkapanda suggested... Anyway, I don't intend to produce huge yields of chilies... 
I just like to grow plants and these systems (hydroponics) are a completely new level of complexity for me    I have to find out how I can handle it. If it should turn out that I manage, I'll have the Ebb & Flow system to look forward to for next year. In any way, I'm grateful for the advice I received here in this forum! It contains really a lot of useful information and helpful people!
I'll try to post some pictures from different stages of my project! But so far I have only the material lying around and a new 4000K fluorescent bulb illuminating my small plants (which already seem to like it after only 1 day).

[sali]

Just one more question:

Right now the seedlings are growing in "Kaktus ja Kylvömulta" in a germination board and they are now between 5-10 centimeters tall... I guess they should be soon ready to be placed in the hydroponic system, or?


When I move the small plants into the hydroponic growing system, how much water should I fill into the basket? Should it just reach the bottom of the pot in which the plant is? Or should the pot be completely in the water.
It's just that the roots are still so small that they are not hanging out of the pot... If the water is reaching the bottom of the pot, does the expanded clay somehow transport the humidity up to the roots?

[Rankkapanda]

Just one more question:

Right now the seedlings are growing in "Kaktus ja Kylvömulta" in a germination board and they are now between 5-10 centimeters tall... I guess they should be soon ready to be placed in the hydroponic system, or?


When I move the small plants into the hydroponic growing system, how much water should I fill into the basket? Should it just reach the bottom of the pot in which the plant is? Or should the pot be completely in the water.
It's just that the roots are still so small that they are not hanging out of the pot... If the water is reaching the bottom of the pot, does the expanded clay somehow transport the humidity up to the roots?

I filled the bucket for the first times all the way, so the water reaches the roots. The roots will grow fast, so in the future you won't need so much water.

[sali]

Thanks! I will do that then as well.