CHANGING SEEDS...

[DENISEVOLEI]

... HELLO... I`M NEW IN THIS GROUP AND I WANT TO SAY HELLO FOR EVERYBODY...

MY NAME IS DENISE I`M FROM BRAZIL - RIO DE JANEIRO - AND I`M INTERESTING TO CHANGE SEEDS...
I HAVE BRAZILLIAN PEPPER SEEDS TO CHANGE..
THANK YOU...
REGARDS
DENISE

[svalli]

Welcome to the group Denise!

I live in USA, Wisconsin and would be really interested to get some new Brazilian Chiles to my collection. You can find what I am growing this year on my plantlist.

[DENISEVOLEI]

THANK YOU !!!


LETS.. CHANGE SEEDS... RSSS...
I WILL SEE YOUR PLANTLIST AND THEN WE CHANGE...
THANKS FOR YOUR ATTENTION
CHEERS
DENISE

[DENISEVOLEI]

... CONGRATULATION!!

YOU HAVE A BEAUTIFUL PLANTLIST!!
I`LL SEND YOU A PM...
REGARDS
AND THANK YOU
DENISE

[Sauli Särkkä]

Denise, could you list your available seeds here? I'm also interested, if you have any interesting specialties..


-Sale

[Janne]

Boa vinda ao Inferno, Denise!

Could you please not use CAPITALS so much, it looks like you are SHOUTING  

[Nuthead]

I'm interrested too so if it's possible to see or get your seedlitst somewhere/somehow...

Kaitsu

[DENISEVOLEI]

:oops:  excuses janne.... its not my intention...
thanks for your regards
denise

[DENISEVOLEI]

... hello sarkka....

i will send you a mp telling what i have to change...
regards
denise

[DENISEVOLEI]

hello...

i will send you a mp too... telling that..
thank you
denise

[DENISEVOLEI]

:lol:  thanks for all regards...

... my peppers and seeds stays on my beach house... every weekends i will go there...
now.. i have a little vacations and i will go to there and i only come back on august.. but please dont stop to send me messages.. i will answer all when i come back or when it will be possible,,
excuse my english but i try my best..
thanks for all..
denise

[Aji Inferno]

Welcome to Inferno, Denise!

Glad to see people from all over the world here, interested in same things - these wonderful little devils called chili!

Yes, I think we all are *very* interested in Brazilean peppers - you, after all, have most of the rarest wild chili peppers growing in Brazil. Also, Brazilean researchers seem to have the best chili knowledge in the world now. Brazilean peppers seem to be quite distinctive, different from other varieties, even from neighbouring South American countries.

By the way, we have Luca as a member here - your fellow-Brazilean who now studies in Finland... He has already introduced us to some wonderful Brazilean plants! Can't wait to find more... :-)

Cheers,
Tommi

[luca]

Someone mentioned my name? ;-)

Hi Denise, nice to see you here too.  Inferno is a great place to be! :lol:
I think Denise already "knows" me from my forum in Portuguese.  

BTW, I actually work here in Finland... I'm glad I already finished my studies (actually, I finished my studies almost 10 years ago! )

[cmpman1974]

This may seem like an odd question, but I am just wondering why it is so difficult to get seeds for Brazillian wild capsicum varieties.  I am not sure how prevalent these are in native areas.  I assume they must be very obscure, even for natives.  

How are they identified by scientists, but seeds are not saved?  Still have lots to learn about these obviously.  

Chris

[luca]

The main problem is that there has been some cases in which people from Japan and the US have registered (patented) some brazilian plant/fruit varieties as been from their native country (and not from Brazil).  This is called bio-piracy and the government has taken some actions to try to stop it from happenenig.  So, in fact, it is illegal to "export" seeds/plants/fruits of wild species.  For this reason, it is not easy to get seeds via the "official" path.

Embrapa (Brazilian Agricultural Research Corporation) collects, identifies, studies and preserves the germplasm of these wild species.  But there are so many different plants spread out around the country (and certainly some species which remain unknown) that, in my opinion, it is impossible for them to do the job alone.  Embrapa doesn't provide seeds for private use, only for research done inside Brazil.  And they don't encourage (or inform) the general public to collect and help them in the task of cataloging and studying brazilian wild flora (capsicum or else).  (Note: this is not the official policy, just what I found out when trying to contact them)

These wild species seem to be rather common throughout Brazil, but brazilian people is not aware of them, therefore they remain mostly unknown or unnoticed

[JartsaP]

I have been wondering the same, along with questions like: "Why don't they correct their mistakes in the database (USDA), even the obvious ones?" and "Why is it so hard for a home grower to obtain rare seeds, there are hundreds of seed banks but they refuse to give away or sell seeds to individuals. Cannot see the reason, if they have plenty of seeds rotting in their storages?" The latter question can be applied to all kinds of seeds, not only Capsicum. It's so really nice to surf the net and see so many interesting plants, knowing that it's practically impossible to find seeds of anything more exotic than parsley.

[Aji Inferno]

The main problem is that there has been some cases in which people from Japan and the US have registered (patented) some brazilian plant/fruit varieties as been from their native country (and not from Brazil).  This is called bio-piracy and the government has taken some actions to try to stop it from happenenig.  So, in fact, it is illegal to "export" seeds/plants/fruits of wild species.  For this reason, it is not easy to get seeds via the "official" path.

Embrapa (Brazilian Agricultural Research Corporation) collects, identifies, studies and preserves the germplasm of these wild species.  But there are so many different plants spread out around the country (and certainly some species which remain unknown) that, in my opinion, it is impossible for them to do the job alone.  Embrapa doesn't provide seeds for private use, only for research done inside Brazil.  And they don't encourage (or inform) the general public to collect and help them in the task of cataloging and studying brazilian wild flora (capsicum or else).  (Note: this is not the official policy, just what I found out when trying to contact them)

These wild species seem to be rather common throughout Brazil, but brazilian people is not aware of them, therefore they remain mostly unknown or unnoticed

The problem with bio-piracy is kind of understandable, but I wonder whether the solution (= no export, no research co-operation) has been the best one in the long run... Still, some other countries seem to have similar kinds of restrictions.

It's also easier to understand the logic behind the restrictions when one considers, for example, birds' eggs... Collectors used to travel from all over the world here, to Finland, to simply steal eggs of rare birds for their or other people's collections. It went pretty bad, even endangering some very rare bird species. So, now this kind of "export" or even local hobby collecting is strictly illegal and will lead to quite severe fines.

Or what about exporting of certain parrots and other animals? Many parrots became almost extinct in the wilderness when everybody wanted one as a house pet... The problem isn't with just some of us collecting a berry or two from some bush in the jungle. The problem is the masses of us. 10 hobbyist people asking for capsicum seeds from USDA isn't a problem. 1000 or 10000 people already are... They can't handle things like those. That's not what they were made for. Likewise, I doubt that Brazilean researchers would love to see masses of eco-tourists roaming around the country, taking (for example) all certain plants with them as souvenirs. Or worse: for business.

This is why I think we need to find a better way. What is happening with ultra-rare c.lanceolatum might be an example. Its seeds can be purchased for those who absolutely want to grow it. This makes it available for us, even if not that easily, but also keeps the demand/supply in some kind of control. Eventually, lanceolatum will (hopefully) spread from extreme hobbyists to the hands of larger masses, when the plant becomes more common. If things go well, two goals met: 1) another interesting wild capsicum available for all of us to grow and 2) an almost extinct plant kind of saved by spreading it all over the world. Perhaps we shall see something similar to happen with other capsicums etc.

Until then we're dependent on individuals, either researchers or hobbyists who can and dare to share seeds they have somehow acquired. They will spread that way, too. The problem there is quality control. In wild capsicums, for example, not everything is at all what it seems. Almost every chile website still lists e.g. capsicum exile as an independent wild capsicum, although we're talking about a c.chacoense somebody just misnamed... There are lots of similar cases around; one type of "c.eximium" proved to be a c.frutescens. At least one c.chacoense has turned out to be a c.annuum... And so on, ad inf.

Anyway, I also believe that some (not all) wild Brazilean capsicums are fairly common locally - and finding a couple of ripe berries + collecting the seeds shouldn't be that difficult. In EMBRAPA and USDA there are exact GPS satellite positioning coordinates to lead people directly to the very same plants the researchers have studied... Think about it. I'd be highly surprised if some, even many nature hobbyists in Brazil haven't already done that... The problem is just that we don't know them - and they don't know us... Yet.

[cmpman1974]

Very interesting.  Makes more sense now.  Thanks for the detailed explanation.  It sould like we need more Brazillian members.  :lol:

Of course, I could probably live right next door to a rare chile plant and not know it since some look drastically different than the domestiamted varieties.

Chris

[luca]

Yes, I agree entirely with Tommi.  I also think that this kind of restrictions or "keep it secret, keep it safe" is not the way to go.  The risk of doing this is that the collected samples might expire or get otherwise lost if not distributed for reproduction.  Also, by restricting the number of people collecting and, especially, aware of these wild species, the number of specimens collected will be very small.  There are often some projects where 5 or 6 brazilian researchers get money to travel around collecting capsicum (or other plants) for some days.  I think this is a really good practice, but very far from being efficient.  Maybe it would be much more efficient to use the same money to educate people on the importance of such wild species and stimulate "common people" (meaning non-researchers) to contribute with the germplasm banks.

I visited Embrapa and talked with some researchers this month, when I was in Brazil.  They said that the publication of GPS location of wild species is being discussed heavily, with some people not wanting them to be published (fearing bio-piracy), while others want them published for documentation purposes.

If you check these databases, it is easy to notice that the plants are quite common and they are in very accessible places, in many cases.  Things like "on the edge of the road XX, 1km before the bridge over river YY" and so on.  So one just needs time and will to go around looking for wild capsicums.  Unfortunately when I go to Brazil, I don't have much time for that, because I have to visit family/friends etc.  Then I also have someone with me who is not that interested in spending a few days walking around and looking for some plants, instead of lying on the beach and taking some sun :lol:

[DENISEVOLEI]

Welcome to Inferno, Denise!

Glad to see people from all over the world here, interested in same things - these wonderful little devils called chili!

Yes, I think we all are *very* interested in Brazilean peppers - you, after all, have most of the rarest wild chili peppers growing in Brazil. Also, Brazilean researchers seem to have the best chili knowledge in the world now. Brazilean peppers seem to be quite distinctive, different from other varieties, even from neighbouring South American countries.

By the way, we have Luca as a member here - your fellow-Brazilean who now studies in Finland... He has already introduced us to some wonderful Brazilean plants! Can't wait to find more... :-)


Cheers,
Tommi

HELLO TOMMI... HOW ARE YOU?
THANKS FOR ALL...
OHHH YES... I THINK THAT WE HAVE A GREAT ENVIRONMENT TO GROW PEPPERS... AND WE HAVE SOME THAT ARE RARE... UNIQUE AND UNSUAL.. BUT ITS DIFFICULT TO FIND SOME OF THEM HERE TOO...
I HAVE SOME SEEDS TO CHANGE IF YOU WANT TELL ME...
AND THANK YOU AGAIN...
BEST REGARDS
DENISE...

EXCUSES MY ENGLISH MISTAKES... BUT I TRY MY BEST...